What do you play when you want a little more depth?

robc04_1 · Post by **robc04_1** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:02 pm

I have played Panzer Corps and enjoyed it. Then I moved on to Unity of Command and enjoyed that too. I am looking for an operational level wargame that has a bit more depth then these two titles. I was thinking about Operational Art of War III. On another forum, Decisive Campaigns Warsaw to Paris was suggested. I tried the Command Ops demo and it was a little to different for me to get into right now. I figure if most of the guys here like Panzer Corps and I did too, they also might be able to suggest something else I would like. Do you have any operational level games you can recommend when you want something a bit deeper?

Thanks.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:39 pm

Hmm, for operational I have always heard(never played them) SSG's games are real good ( available at Matrix)

There is the recent remake of Combat Command which is company size units (Matrix)

Also HPS sims Panzer Campaign/Modern war Campaign titles might be up you alley. (most units are co, battalion and or regimental sized)

rich12545 · Post by **rich12545** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:57 pm

The Operational Art of War is the obvious choice. Lots of depth, a ton of scenarios and a decent AI.

brettz123 · Post by **brettz123** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:23 am

Hearts of Iron II

Lamont · Post by **Lamont** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:21 pm

Great with some advice what others here are into. Will check out a few you guys mentiond that I havent tried, thanks for that.

Not sure if you like the bigger picture of the war with divisions, corps and army's . Anyway My favorite for some time now have been this

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Camo_Works ... _page.html

Its more on platton/squad, Company and battilion level though. There are a few other ones you may like better if you look at the home page.
Hopefully someone will find something.

robc04_1 · Post by **robc04_1** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:45 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually have Hearts of Iron 2 that I bought a while ago and haven't played it much. Maybe I'll tak that for another spin although that is kind of a strategic game. For buying a game I guess I am leaning towards TOAW III.

WhiteRook · Post by **WhiteRook** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:55 pm

I have the HOI 3 series and really like them. Also Gary Grigsby's Uncommon Valor is a very good operational game.

Mark50 · Post by **Mark50** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:46 pm

TheGrayMouser wrote:Hmm, for operational I have always heard(never played them) SSG's games are real good ( available at Matrix)

Which titles are you referring to?

There is the recent remake of Combat Command which is company size units (Matrix)

Also HPS sims Panzer Campaign/Modern war Campaign titles might be up you alley. (most units are co, battalion and or regimental sized)

Do you have a link for these please?

About Hearts of Iron 2 and 3. Could someone please explain to me how you get to buy military equipment? Mostly I`m interested if you can start with a country like Romania or Poland and buy licenses to build specific English and French(for example) tanks and aircraft or if you can buy the actual equipment. For example using diplomacy to buy a number of Hawker Hurricane planes from England or acquiring the plans to produce the fighter yourself. The idea of course being to develop a modern army before the war starts so that you`re prepared for it. Is that possible or are you reduced to just researching regional/historic equipment types?

bebro · Post by **bebro** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:06 pm

Mark50 wrote: About Hearts of Iron 2 and 3. Could someone please explain to me how you get to buy military equipment? Mostly I`m interested if you can start with a country like Romania or Poland and buy licenses to build specific English and French(for example) tanks and aircraft or if you can buy the actual equipment. For example using diplomacy to buy a number of Hawker Hurricane planes from England or acquiring the plans to produce the fighter yourself. The idea of course being to develop a modern army before the war starts so that you`re prepared for it. Is that possible or are you reduced to just researching regional/historic equipment types?

Never played the third part, but HOI II was one of my favourite games for a long time.

You can buy units from your allies there, but it is often so expensive that you can hardly afford it. In some cases it is possible, but the unit arrives without any strength (represents that you only buy equipment, but need to use your own manpower to make it combat ready)

Besides this there is not much in diplo activity that lets you by licenses or so. You research a certain tech that unlocks a new unit class or higher unit level, then you have to produce it yourself. Of course, minors have it more difficult in all fields since they have less capacity to researcha nd produce than bigger countries. You can use intel to steal blueprints, but this only shortens the time to research something, doesn't help unit production.

Could be they expanded this in pt. 3 though, not sure here.

Mark50 · Post by **Mark50** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:30 pm

Thank you for the explanation! I was hoping it`s more like in Supreme Ruler where you can use diplomacy to buy the design of certain equipment and then you just start to produce it yourself. For example starting a talk with France, opening a panel for equipment designs, choosing the Char B1 bis, paying for it and then placing it into production. My idea being to use hindsight(so to speak) to choose the best equipment to deal with a specific coming threat. If that`s not possible than it`s gonna be tough indeed playing smaller countries.

brettz123 · Post by **brettz123** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:34 pm

In Hearts of Iron II and III you have to develop technology to "invent" what you can build. You will start with some basic stuff that you can build to begin and then you have to do research to be able to build more advanced tanks and planes for instance.

You can only build what is in your national tree essentially. I have never played any of the minor countries so I can not tell you what is in their national tree but you can go to the technology tab and it will tell you what it allows you to build when you click on the appropriate tech.

You can buy units from other countries through the diplomacy screen but as has been stated it is VERY expensive and you receive the unit at 1 strength out of 100 possible strength. So you end up paying a lot for a unit you then need to fill with your own manpower. Usually not worth it BUT for airplanes which require a low amount of manpower in the first place you might find it isn't a bad trade off. And as Romania you will have a lot of spare oil which is a pretty good resource you can use to trade for military units.

brettz123 · Post by **brettz123** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:35 pm

Mark50 wrote:Thank you for the explanation! I was hoping it`s more like in Supreme Ruler where you can use diplomacy to buy the design of certain equipment and then you just start to produce it yourself. For example starting a talk with France, opening a panel for equipment designs, choosing the Char B1 bis, paying for it and then placing it into production. My idea being to use hindsight(so to speak) to choose the best equipment to deal with a specific coming threat. If that`s not possible than it`s gonna be tough indeed playing smaller countries.

A tank is pretty much a tank in this game. There is obviously a difference in later tanks compared to earlier tanks but not a huge difference between tanks of different nationalities on the same technological level.

Mark50 · Post by **Mark50** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:13 pm

@brettz123 Thank you! That`s pretty much what I wanted to find out. Is the cost of buying equipment proportional to your relations with that country?

brettz123 · Post by **brettz123** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:20 pm

Mark50 wrote:@brettz123 Thank you! That`s pretty much what I wanted to find out. Is the cost of buying equipment proportional to your relations with that country?

I believe it is. The best "resources" to trade away would be supplies, money, and oil. The other resources (coal, steel, and rare materials) are significantly worth less.