Moving from an Overlap on to a Flank

[acl]

A club member new to Fog asked about moving from an overlap to a flank attack position. Thought I knew the answer, but on reflection am not certain, and wanted to check with the brains here.

There are three units of Roman legionaries in a civil war, each of four elements. A and B are in line abreast. Z has charged A and is fully lined up with it. So B is contributing 2 dice to the continued melee in which it is fighting as an overlap only. The AB player wants to move his legion B from an overlap to a flank position.


Flank Charge

B cannot charge Z from its present position as it is not behind Z's flank. Hope I am right in thinking that it cannot do tricksy stuff within an inch of Zs flank? So that if B wants to charge Z in the flank or rear it will have to detach itself from the melee (I assume that this is allowed) and move beyond Z's rear edge? If B had passed a movement test it could turn 90 degrees that bound. A would then have to fight that bound's melee round alone. And fight alone in Z's bound's melee round. If the fight was still going on, am I right in thinking that B cd charge Z's flank or rear in the following bound. Z would lose a cohesion stage, would fight an impact combat at double minus and would then have to turn at least one element to fight Z in further rounds of fighting, which would put Z down a POA for fighting in two directions?


Flank Shuffle

Experienced players mentioned another option, which is new to me and which I want to get right. In the first bound B shuffles forward. I guess so that the back of his rear rank is in alignment with the front of Z's front rank? Am I right in thinking that that manoeuvre would still allow B to contribute his pair of dice as an overlap that bound? After Z's bound, B then swings through 90 degrees, so that he is in frontal contact with the side of Z's rear rank. Is that legal?

Assuming it is, there are three things I'd like to check:

1. As it is not a charge, hope I am right in assuming that Z does not drop a cohesion level?

2. Does Z have to turn an element to fight B?

3. Whether Z turns an element or not does B now contribute 4 dice to the melee rather than the 2 he did as a normal overlap - as he has started a new line, so gets an overlap of his own?

I am fairly confident about how flank charges work, but have never seen this shuffle-thing, and wanted to check I had it right.

If it isn't legl is there something similar that B could do? His aim being to increase the number of dice he contributes to the melee from 2 to 4, ideally without having to forgo a bound of fighting as an overlap?

With thanks in anticipation,

Alan

[philqw78]

The only way for an overlap to get into a flank position is to first move away, then wait, then charge in its next turn.

The turning onto flank can only be done if not providing any dice to the combat.

[bbotus]

To add some detail to Phil's answer:

If the fight was still going on, am I right in thinking that B cd charge Z's flank or rear in the following bound. Z would lose a cohesion stage, would fight an impact combat at double minus and would then have to turn at least one element to fight Z in further rounds of fighting, which would put Z down a POA for fighting in two directions?

Yes.

Experienced players mentioned another option, which is new to me and which I want to get right. In the first bound B shuffles forward. I guess so that the back of his rear rank is in alignment with the front of Z's front rank? Am I right in thinking that that manoeuvre would still allow B to contribute his pair of dice as an overlap that bound?

See viewtopic.php?t=31395 for contributing dice although the thread is getting a bit mucked up at this time.

After Z's bound, B then swings through 90 degrees, so that he is in frontal contact with the side of Z's rear rank. Is that legal?

No. See 2nd bullet on page 56 and FAQ, 4iii. A flank charge can't include a wheel starting within 1 MU of the enemy and you can't frontally charge the side of the 1st two ranks of a BG file in melee.

Now if the wheel contacted the 3rd rank, then OK. But it is still a frontal charge and the chargers would then align back to the front of the enemy in the original overlap position.

Assuming it is, there are three things I'd like to check:

1. As it is not a charge, hope I am right in assuming that Z does not drop a cohesion level?

2. Does Z have to turn an element to fight B?

3. Whether Z turns an element or not does B now contribute 4 dice to the melee rather than the 2 he did as a normal overlap - as he has started a new line, so gets an overlap of his own?

B is in valid overlap and fights as such. The moves you are describing are on pages 76-77 and would only apply if A wasn't fighting Z.

[muz177]

So, depending on what is happening around the combat and the relative need of getting BG2 to contribute as an overlap, you may be better off not joining the combat as an overlap, but positioning for a charge in the next turn.

Muz