Introducing the SS Panzer Corps

nikivdd · Post by **nikivdd** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:21 pm

Values can be discussed about.
The point i make is that the SS PzIA should not cost so much more percentage wise than a SS PZVI Tiger

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:25 pm

nikivdd wrote:Values can be discussed about.
The point i make is that the SS PzIA should not cost so much more percentage wise than a SS PZVI Tiger

Your right,,we'll figure it out

The cost of the SS PzIA is 137. The cost of the SS PZVI is 733

When I made up the cost increase ,in my mind, I was concentrating on the extra training that the Waffen SS received . Thats why the only Hard and Soft attack values that were changed were the ones for the infantry (to reflect the extra automatic weapons and the extra anti-armor training and camo smocks that they received even before the war started).

I didn't change any other class's attack values due to the fact that the Heer and Waffen SS both used the same weapons and an 8.8cm is still going to have the same range, no matter who is firing it (I know the rate of fire would be different w/ a more experienced and well trained crew,,but I didn't want to get to much "into the weeds" w/ more stat changes and wind up creating Uber units). The difference is going to be seen in the training and discipline of the crew,,thus a bump of 1 in intitative and ammo.

As I tried to show above, The cost and the bump in intiative and ammo is concetrated more on the personell and not the equipment,per se. A Waffen SS panzertruppen is still the same man if he's in a PZIA or a PZVI. He still received the same basic training no matter what veh or weapon system he's assigned to.

I agree w/ you guys the flat rate should go,,but I don't want to go to high w/ the percentage and make the unit(s) totally unaffordable. The player is already slightly handicapped by the higher unit costs and the lack of the SE bonus ground units,,which is not insurmountable, it just makes the player think more,,but I fear if the units cost too much it will destroy the playability and balance.

nikivdd · Post by **nikivdd** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:06 pm

Sleezly wrote:Nice job Airborne! Had some time on my hands so gave your mod a try! It also works with Niki's GTPG mod which I found out by accident after forgetting I still had it in GME! Being from PA, you're not a Steelers fan are you? If so I can't play yoür mod again since i am from Cleveland and a die hard Browns fan!!!!!! Just kidding Airborne and again I find your mod really good! Thanks!!! Oh and the thing I dont know about GTPG mod is if Your SS units will carry over to the following GTPG mods!

The mod should be compatible with GTPG vanilla e-file. First load GTPG and then SS Panzer Mod into GME.

And since this is a good time as any, Bob and i have the pleasure to announce that GTPG will be combined with the SS Panzer mod.

But first let me finish the vanilla version and updates

.

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:23 pm

I like seeing modders cooperating.

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:05 pm

It's my honor that Nico wants to use it

I'm truly flattered

drjeff21 · Post by **drjeff21** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:25 pm

Very cool. Thank you for your hard work.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:36 pm

I would go with a flat 10% for the armour - the INF get a lot more bonuses, so perhaps +15% for them. Anyway, the decision is yours but I thought I'd just show the increases with +10% rounded (over normal equipment costs - I didn't use SE equipment for these calculations)

Pz IA: 107 + 11 = 118
Pz IIC: 192 + 19 = 211
Pz IIIE: 267 = 27 = 294
Pz IIIN: 402 + 40 = 442
Pz IVG: 466 + 47 = 513
Panther G: 674 + 67 = 741
Tiger I: 703 + 70 = 773
Tiger II: 990 + 99 = 1089 (exceeded the psychological 1000 barrier!) KTs are uber units now - an extra point of initiative makes them even more uber.

Just out of interest, what sorts of things are you noticing with the equipment changes in game play? Are the SS units significantly tougher, a bit tougher, no real difference? I'll test it, too, but am just wondering.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:40 pm

Just noticed that the GME throws up conflict messages loading this mod when the insignia pack is already loaded. I would suggest leave the historical insignia mod out of your download and point players to it to load separately. I don't think it would cause any play issues but it might be concerning for some guys to see those messages.

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:44 pm

drjeff21 wrote:Very cool. Thank you for your hard work.

you're welcome,,,,thank you for taking an interest

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:47 pm

El_Condoro wrote:Just noticed that the GME throws up conflict messages loading this mod when the insignia pack is already loaded. I would suggest leave the historical insignia mod out of your download and point players to it to load separately. I don't think it would cause any play issues but it might be concerning for some guys to see those messages.

Ok I'll make an annoucement to not download or use the Historcial Mod seperately.

Thanks for spotting that

I see your point,,,but I really,,really down want to have to re-pack the entire mod again

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:51 pm

Just ran a quick-and-nasty test: an SS Pz IVG, Panther, Tiger and KT against their equivalent Heer/standard units (no XP for either). The +1 initiative makes quite a difference in some cases, none in others.

The first predicted results are when the SS unit is attacking and the second is when the Heer unit is attacking.
Pz IVH: (-3, -4) - (-4, -3)
Panther G: (-3, -4) - (-4, -3)
Tiger: (-2, -2) - (-2, -2) *interesting that it makes no difference in this instance
Tiger II: (-2, -4) - (-4, -3) *the most significant difference

Initiative is very important so the increased costs of SS units are warranted IMO.

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:06 pm

El_Condoro wrote:Just ran a quick-and-nasty test: an SS Pz IVG, Panther, Tiger and KT against their equivalent Heer/standard units (no XP for either). The +1 initiative makes quite a difference in some cases, none in others.

The first predicted results are when the SS unit is attacking and the second is when the Heer unit is attacking.
Pz IVH: (-3, -4) - (-4, -3)
Panther G: (-3, -4) - (-4, -3)
Tiger: (-2, -2) - (-2, -2) *interesting that it makes no difference in this instance
Tiger II: (-2, -4) - (-4, -3) *the most significant difference

Initiative is very important so the increased costs of SS units are warranted IMO.

Thanks for the independent test. I appreciate it alot.

That's about what I came up,,a slight edge,,but nothing that is earth-shattering,and that's what I was looking for,,not to create Uber units but to show a little boost due to better training.

I tested exstensively w/ different stat changes/prices..etc. and was dissatisfied w/ the results. I either wound up w/ uber units,,units that had exorbinant costs or both

.

I went up back to my original idea,,just to boost intiative and ammo by one and boost the grunts soft/hard attack by one each and a little price increase ot compensate

.

I guess it goes to show the old adage about going w/ your 1st choice is correct

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:19 pm

El-Condoro, there's no problem with that conflict in GME. That conflics exists because the Historical Insignia Pack was already enabled.
I would advise instead to people disable Historical Insignia Pack from GME, in case they have it enabled, or just simply to ignore the messages.

But again I want to call your attention that exists a pack much better than mine.
viewtopic.php?p=287024
You could ask Scott for permission, Bob.
Look at his awards and compare with mine. Even the flag is better. And the eaglehead his miles away in terms of graphical design. Besides it's the Wehrmacht eagle.
All this in my opinion, of course.

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:20 pm

El_Condoro wrote:I would go with a flat 10% for the armour - the INF get a lot more bonuses, so perhaps +15% for them. Anyway, the decision is yours but I thought I'd just show the increases with +10% rounded (over normal equipment costs - I didn't use SE equipment for these calculations)

Pz IA: 107 + 11 = 118
Pz IIC: 192 + 19 = 211
Pz IIIE: 267 = 27 = 294
Pz IIIN: 402 + 40 = 442
Pz IVG: 466 + 47 = 513
Panther G: 674 + 67 = 741
Tiger I: 703 + 70 = 773
Tiger II: 990 + 99 = 1089 (exceeded the psychological 1000 barrier!) KTs are uber units now - an extra point of initiative makes them even more uber.

Just out of interest, what sorts of things are you noticing with the equipment changes in game play? Are the SS units significantly tougher, a bit tougher, no real difference? I'll test it, too, but am just wondering.

Those prices sound awesome,,I agree totally.

I was leaning exaclty along those lines and had done the same computations.

I was just waiting a little while to see what the community thought.

Of course I will implement the price changes (in a little bit),,do you think I'm a tyrant

As for combat results,,nothing earth-shattering just a very slight edge due to intiative. Of course later w/ experience and heroes it becomes more pronounced,,but that also holds true for the Heer units also.

I'm quite happy w/ the finished product in both playability and balance,,the mod gives a chance for the player to buy a slighlty better unit at a slighlty higher cost and represents an important part of the Wehrmacht.

I hope others will enjoy it also

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:28 pm

VPaulus wrote:El-Condoro, there's no problem with that conflict in GME. That conflics exists because the Historical Insignia Pack was already enabled.
I would advise instead to people disable Historical Insignia Pack from GME, in case they have it enabled, or just simply to ignore the messages.

But again I want to call your attention that exists a pack much better than mine.
viewtopic.php?p=287024
You could ask Scott for permission, Bob.
Look at his awards and compare with mine. Even the flag is better. And the eaglehead his miles away in terms of graphical design. Besides it's the Wehrmacht eagle.
All this in my opinion, of course.

I'll pm him and ask permission,,thanks Paulo

Hey ...do me another favor,,could you announce the SS Panzer Mod over on the Matrix forums.

I've been going around and around for years w/ their tech support about my registering and loggging in on their forums.

I have a Matrix account and I have a seperate forum account,,but I can't log on in the forums.

I finally got so disgusted that I gave up trying,,could you point people over this way? or show a link on their forums

Thanks in advance Paulo

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:40 pm

Done.

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:39 am

I'm really sorry,,but I forgot to include somebody in the acknowledgements in the zip file

.

This person is just as important as the devs,,because w/o his tool ,,modding Panzer Corps would be impossible,, at least for me .

I think my cats are more computer literate than me (one is watching me type now

)

Anyway like I said I'm sorry and he definitely will be included in future acknowlegdements

So here's his belated acknowlegdement

THANK YOU Mark Garnett for one helluva tool

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:44 am

Yes, Mark deserves it.
I too should have already mentioned him in my mod.
In the next update I'll add him to the credits.
Thanks Mark!

nikivdd · Post by **nikivdd** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:36 pm

With great pride we announce the first release of the SS-GTPG mod.

The mod must be loaded in GME before playing. Also unrar the file in \mygames\panzer corps\mods folder

This first beta includes all GTPG scenarios from part 1 to 5 in one single download and in one long campaign tree.

Now you can also purchase the better but more costly SS variant of the regular Heer units and you can still receive a SE unit for getting a DV.

Have fun and feel free to share any feedback you might have.

I'm sure Bob will add a few words too

. Cheers.

EDIT: newer versions further in this thread.

airbornemongo101 · Post by **airbornemongo101** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:40 pm

For right now the SE stats are the same as the regular Heer units,,like I said for right now.

I personally thought that w/ being able to buy the SS units w/ increased stats that the SE's "claim to fame" would be not contributing to the core units allowance. I would like some feedback on that.

I'm not saying either "units" are "better" than others..so don't read anyhting into it,,it's just like I said,,the player can now buy units w/ increased stats for an increased price,,so I thought the SE units could fill another "niche"

The SE units use the great Camo Tiger Skin 1 made by Flak/Rezaf,

There are no SE inf.,,,for right now,,this is only a beta.

Enjoy and please be liberal w/ the feedback,,both por and con,,just please keep it contrsuctive and civil.

P.S.

A Total Heer SE Mod (where every Heer and Luftwaffe unit is avialble as a bonus) is coming.........w/ a little twist..,,hopefully I'll start on it this weekend .