New poll regarding Italian surrender

[Peter Stauffenberg]

There has been some discussion and no suggestion has got a clear advantage so I want to make a new poll with some updated suggestions and go with what we decide here.

1. No change meaning that 3 cities count including Tunis, but not Cagliari, Reggio and Tirana

2. Let Tripoli, Tunis and all Italian cities (including Cagliari, Reggio and Tirana) count as surrender cities. Increase required number of cities for surrender for 3 to 4. Losing cities will not affect Italian morale. A good thing about this solution is that the Allies can now ignore Sicily and still make a surrender if Cagliari and Tirana are captured. They need Tripoli and Tunis as well. So it can counter the Sicily blob strategy. The downside is that it could be easier to force a surrender because you can take Cagliari and only need 1 city on Sicily to make a surrender.

3. Same as 2, but required cities is 5. With this option you need both cities on Sicily and Cagliari in addition to Tunis and Tripoli or you need both of Reggio and Tirana instead of Sicily. So with this solution you might feel forced to land in Sicily as well or try for the toe of Italy. A downside is that with as many as 5 cities you might feel forced to take Tunis and Tripoli because going straight for Sicily and Sardinia is not enough. Then you need Reggio and Taranto / Naples as well. But maybe that's actually good.

4. Add Tripoli as a surrender city and increase number required to 4. Move production from Cagliari to Ancona and only count Italian cities with production. Add 10 morale loss for losing each of Tunis and Tripoli

5. Same as 4 but add morale loss of 5 for losing Tunis and 3 for each Libya city (Tobruk, Benghazi and Tripoli)

A good thing about 2 and 3 is that ALL Italian cities will count as surrender cities so players don't have to remember that e. g. Reggio isn't a surrender city as today. We also add Tripoli and keep Tunis as surrender cities so the Allies need more cities in Italy if they bypass Libya and / or Tunisia. That should give the Allied player an encouragement to start Torch and invade Libya.

[Crazygunner1]

I don´t understand why people feel that Italy surrenders early. I have never had a surrender before 43...ever...

I find that if Sicily is heavy fortified with GAR and some INF in key cities, that island is almost impenetrable. Atlest it will take such a large force to attack it that it´s probably not worth it because you can´t get ashore. Add to that you still have Tobruk fortress as a stronghold to slow the 8th army down on it´s path to Italy. Putting a good german unit in there with a defensive leader attached to it is also a solid defense. Maybe build another italian tank and send over 2 of them to Tobruk together with your mechs and inf. That will surely tip the balance a bit...

The thing is that you can´t decide not to do a desert campaign with the Axis, hand over the initiative to Allies and then complain about early italian exits in the war. Take a look at your games....how many of them would have resulted in an early exit of Italy if you would activate Spain, capured Suezcanal or reinforced properly in the defense of key positions like Tobruk and Sicily

Bottom line is if you decide not to invest in the "Med theatre" you risk and early exit of Italy in the war, it´s that simple

Crazyg