Intercept contacting another enemy BG as well

[stecal]

A question came up in a game yesterday. We ruled it as legal, but it still leaves doubts.

Can a BG intercept a charge if it also strikes another enemy BG?

The situation was as follows: Sarmatians want to charge Legionary BG, but a Roman Cavalry BG is within 4"and there is an enemy therophoroi unit partly intervening. Can the Roman Cav intercept if it strikes the Theurophoroi first and still reaches the Sarmatians with a 2" step forward to intercept it? Obviously the Roman Cav then has to fight both BGs.



end after step forward to intercept:

[berthier]

No. There is no step forward on non-flank or rear intercepts. Frontal intercept charges have the intercepting unit move into the charge path of the charging unit and then the charging unit makes contact with the interceptor and steps forward.

As for the Roman Cav unit being able to move to just short of the Therophoroi and have one base of the Sarmatians hit it and the other hit the Legionaires I say maybe. Not sure about the angles in your pic. The Sarmatians would step forward with its right hand file and might hit the Roman Cav before it hits the Legionaires or might not.

I don't see the Roman cav, from the pic, being able to completely prevent the Sarmatians from hitting the Legionaires.

[bbotus]

As for the Roman Cav unit being able to move to just short of the Therophoroi and have one base of the Sarmatians hit it and the other hit the Legionaires I say maybe.

One thing I like about the rules is that you get to measure it, you don't guess. So you get to figure exactly where the position the Sarmatians will be at the completion of the charge and see if the move would cross the path of the Roman Cav on a straight forward interception move (which must be just short of contacting the Therophoroi). If the answer is 'yes', then you can intercept.

However, there is one other possibility. When the Sarmatians charge the legion, would the right hand file be able to step forward and contact the cav? I'm with Berthier, difficult to know from the picture. If the answer is 'yes', then the Roman Cav are also a target of the charge and not allowed to intercept. In that case, the Sarmatians must step forward into contact.

[philqw78]

One of the basic premises for an intercept is (unless a flank or rear charge):

Intercepts do not contact. They move into the path of.

[zoltan]

We've kinda of discussed this before in the debate over whether or not an interception charge is a charge (enjoying all the options and restrictions applying to a charge, such as stepping forward), or an entirely different beast (with its own limited set of special rules on pages 62-64 only).

I think the consensus was that an interception charge is a Response to a Charge and NOT a Charge. Therefore, unless explicitly stated on pages 62-64, things that usually apply to charges are irrelevant to interception charges.

In the picture provided above, I would think the intercepting Roman cav would halt on the line of first contact with the Theurophoroi and then the Sarmatians would charge home initially contacting the legionaries and then probably stepping forward with their right hand file into the Roman cav.

[nikgaukroger]

We've kinda of discussed this before in the debate over whether or not an interception charge is a charge (enjoying all the options and restrictions applying to a charge, such as stepping forward), or an entirely different beast (with its own limited set of special rules on pages 62-64 only).

I think the consensus was that an interception charge is a Response to a Charge and NOT a Charge. Therefore, unless explicitly stated on pages 62-64, things that usually apply to charges are irrelevant to interception charges.

There is, of course, this in the FAQ:

"When does an interception charge step forward?

Charges are declared, interceptions are responses to such charges.

If the interceptors are intercepting the chargers from the front, both chargers and interceptors are in reality charging semisimultaneously.
However, for the sake of simple game play the interception charge is moved sufficiently to get in the way
of the original charge and then the original chargers are moved into contact. The interceptors do not make contact – they
therefore do not step forward. The original chargers step forward as usual.

Where an interception catches a BG in the flank or rear this is a different situation. The chargers’ move is cancelled and
effectively the interceptors charge them instead. In this case it is the interceptors that are making contact so they do step
forward."

[philqw78]

In the picture provided above, I would think the intercepting Roman cav would halt on the line of first contact with the Theurophoroi

stop their intercept movement just before the line of first contact as they cannot contact other troops*

and then the Sarmatians would charge home initially contacting the legionaries and then probably stepping forward with their right hand file into the Roman cav.

If the Roman cavalry had to be stepped forward into they could not intercept as an intercept must cross the original path of the charge.

They must contact the Roman cavalry before the legion if the Roman cavalry is to intercept

*unless in an intercept that is flank or rear contact, then by stepping forwards only.

[stecal]

thanks guys.

[zoltan]

They must contact the Roman cavalry before the legion if the Roman cavalry is to intercept

I don't think the logic is the right way round here, Phil

On reflection, I withdraw my comments about the Roman cav intercepting by contacting the Therophoroi first etc. As Nik has pointed out, 'frontal' interceptors don't make contact. So, to start again...

Looking at the photo, it would appear that the Roman cav would be a target of the Sarmatian charge if the Sarmats charged straight ahead or declared a small right wheel. It looks like after the Sarmat left hand file makes initial contact with the legionaries, its right hand file would be obliged to step forward into the Roman cav, thus making the Roman cav a target of the charge. In this case, the Roman cav would not be entitled to declare an intercept charge as they are themselves a target of the Sarmat charge.

Alternatively, the Sarmats could declare a small left wheel such that their right hand file makes first contact with the legionaries. In this case, the Roman cav (not being a target of the charge) could declare an intercept charge. The Roman cav would then advance as far as it likes but stopping just short of the Therophoroi. Given the Sarmat's left wheel, they would be likely to first contact the legionaries with their right file. The Sarmat left file would then step forward into the legionaries. After impact was completed, the Sarmats would line up squarely with the legionaries.

[philqw78]

Intercepts must cross the original path of the charge.

If the interceptors move forward to a position where to be contacted the chargers must step forward they have not crossed that path



And I don't understand what you are trying to say here as the intercept then involves no crossing of charge path and therefore no contact so cannot take place

Alternatively, the Sarmats could declare a small left wheel such that their right hand file makes first contact with the legionaries. In this case, the Roman cav (not being a target of the charge) could declare an intercept charge. The Roman cav would then advance as far as it likes but stopping just short of the Therophoroi. Given the Sarmat's left wheel, they would be likely to first contact the legionaries with their right file. The Sarmat left file would then step forward into the legionaries. After impact was completed, the Sarmats would line up squarely with the legionaries.

[hazelbark]

While we are at it lets discuss can you move an intercept to a where it will be contacted by the step forward of a charge, but the intercept only enters the step forward zone not the charge to contact?

[zoltan]

And I don't understand what you are trying to say here as the intercept then involves no crossing of charge path and therefore no contact so cannot take place

Alternatively, the Sarmats could declare a small left wheel such that their right hand file makes first contact with the legionaries. In this case, the Roman cav (not being a target of the charge) could declare an intercept charge. The Roman cav would then advance as far as it likes but stopping just short of the Therophoroi. Given the Sarmat's left wheel, they would be likely to first contact the legionaries with their right file. The Sarmat left file would then step forward into the legionaries. After impact was completed, the Sarmats would line up squarely with the legionaries.

Being down under, left is right and right is left. If the Sarmats declare a small RIGHT wheel such that their right hand file contacts the legionaries....

But I take your point. Because the Therophoroi constrain how far the Roman cav can move, there is no way that a Roman cav intercept can cross the path of the Sarmats charge in the example where the Sarmats make a RIGHT wheel towards the legionaries.

So in neither case can the Roman cav declare an intercept charge as in one situation they will be the target of the charge and in the other situation they can not reach a point that "intercepts" the path of the chargers.

[zoltan]

While we are at it lets discuss can you move an intercept to a where it will be contacted by the step forward of a charge, but the intercept only enters the step forward zone not the charge to contact?

I think the logic flow is:

1. Can charger X step forward into B following initial contact with A?
2. If "yes", then B is a target of the charge an not entitled to intercept X
3. If "no" then B may be entitled to declare an intercept charge if it can reach a point somewhere in X's path

This appears to imply that frontal interceptors always need to be further than the charger's maximum charge move + 2MU away from the charger.

[philqw78]

While we are at it lets discuss can you move an intercept to a where it will be contacted by the step forward of a charge, but the intercept only enters the step forward zone not the charge to contact?

No. An intercept must cross the path of the charging enemy BG. Not create one.

[peteratjet]

.. in a related case ..

what happens if charging skirmishers are intercept charged by non-skirmishers? Do they step on the brakes and come to a screaming halt 1MU from the interceptors ?

[berthier]

Its covered in the FAQ. The skirmishers are screwed.

[philqw78]

Its in the FAQ, in short they get creamed for being so foolish.

[Lycanthropic]

Charging skirmishers are indeed intercepted by non-skirmishers and right royally rogered old chap! This is covered in the errata.
"Do NOT pass go, do NOT collect $200" is our quote for skirmishers that were dumb enough to be intercepted by non-skirmishers.
I wish they would remove the word charge from intercepts and just call them INTERCEPTS or INTERCEPTIONS.
Here is an old classic.....is a love apple an apple?