DLC 42 #02 Kharkov42
Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
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El_Condoro
- Panzer Corps Moderator
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:32 am
DLC 42 #02 Kharkov42
Kharkov42
Teaser/preview:
Overall path of Soviet advance(red) and my German plan(grey)
These AUX get overrun immediately:
Before I even start my turn (Russian AI is the phasing player):
Defensive line. Complete with anti-tank weapons, entrenched infantry, and artillery support:
Northern counterattack force, complete with 2 extra SE AUX units:
Southern flank force, consisting of all my SE units all my Wurfrahmen and 2 extra SE AUX units:
The red marks the furthest the Soviet forces managed to advance before I starting rolling up the AI's flanks and bombing their spearhead to pieces:
After 16 turns, the Soviet force has been reduced to a pocket at Izyum:
http://i.imgur.com/n0nij.jpg
And this is just the second scenario... DLC 1942 is looking to be the best of all the DLC so far!
Overall path of Soviet advance(red) and my German plan(grey)
These AUX get overrun immediately:
Before I even start my turn (Russian AI is the phasing player):
Defensive line. Complete with anti-tank weapons, entrenched infantry, and artillery support:
Northern counterattack force, complete with 2 extra SE AUX units:
Southern flank force, consisting of all my SE units all my Wurfrahmen and 2 extra SE AUX units:
The red marks the furthest the Soviet forces managed to advance before I starting rolling up the AI's flanks and bombing their spearhead to pieces:
After 16 turns, the Soviet force has been reduced to a pocket at Izyum:
http://i.imgur.com/n0nij.jpg
And this is just the second scenario... DLC 1942 is looking to be the best of all the DLC so far!
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Blathergut
- Field Marshal - Elefant
- Posts: 5882
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:44 am
- Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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grabbysnatch
- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:04 pm
I haven't used the Matilda except on Crete. Don't even think it is that useful for defense.nikivdd wrote:Aren't the Char1B and Mathilda II getting obsolete or are they still performing well?
The Char is at least useful to destroy Infantry and can take a beating as well and while 4 is slow it isn't goddamn slow.
They're starting to show their age. Before I got to Stalingrad, all my Char Bs and Matilda IIs died, or I upgraded them to Panzer IVs... and then those Panzer IVs died. lolnikivdd wrote:Aren't the Char1B and Mathilda II getting obsolete or are they still performing well?
The only captured equipment I have left are KV-1s (sold or lost all my T-34s).
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
SHEESH! What difficulty are you playing on?Kerensky wrote:They're starting to show their age. Before I got to Stalingrad, all my Char Bs and Matilda IIs died, or I upgraded them to Panzer IVs... and then those Panzer IVs died. lolnikivdd wrote:Aren't the Char1B and Mathilda II getting obsolete or are they still performing well?
The only captured equipment I have left are KV-1s (sold or lost all my T-34s).
Kharkov General difficulty.
At the deployment phase upgraded all Bf109e/f to Bf109g, Bf110d/f to Bf110g. I also bought two self-propelled AA units (SdKfz 7/2).
The Russians once again in the role of attackers and they came in large numbers. I fortified the center along the river. I put my best tanks along the aux SE elite units, supported by StuGIIIB's and Sturmpanzers. I had no patience to wait long to go on the move, i unleashed the groups in the north and south in an attempt to surround and trap the Russians in Izyum.
Unfortunately, my plan failed. When the northern group reached Svatove, opposition was much larger than anticipated. The same happened with the southern group in Severodonetsk.
Either it was my imagination or is it a new AI move? I was wondering several times, where a very-low strength russian unit went? Did it disband? I wonder. Also the AI seems to get smarter in spawning units. When i was close to Severodonetsk it spawned 3 KV-1C tanks around this city, i don't think that was triggered.
All units trying to cross the river in the center were easily dealt with. The area in hands of the russians got smaller with every turn and greatly thanks to the Luftwaffe, they really do a great job in dealing the first blow to those infernal russian tanks. At some points the battle was intense, in which i lost another T-34 (again one i found in this map) and an SE PzIIIJ/1. Overall i can say that the russians are getting stronger by each scenario and more difficult to vanquish. A solid scenario and not to be underestimated.
I finished in 12/20 with 3489PP.
Screenshot of the furthest advance of the russians. I denied them the other shore of the river in the center.
At the deployment phase upgraded all Bf109e/f to Bf109g, Bf110d/f to Bf110g. I also bought two self-propelled AA units (SdKfz 7/2).
The Russians once again in the role of attackers and they came in large numbers. I fortified the center along the river. I put my best tanks along the aux SE elite units, supported by StuGIIIB's and Sturmpanzers. I had no patience to wait long to go on the move, i unleashed the groups in the north and south in an attempt to surround and trap the Russians in Izyum.
Unfortunately, my plan failed. When the northern group reached Svatove, opposition was much larger than anticipated. The same happened with the southern group in Severodonetsk.
Either it was my imagination or is it a new AI move? I was wondering several times, where a very-low strength russian unit went? Did it disband? I wonder. Also the AI seems to get smarter in spawning units. When i was close to Severodonetsk it spawned 3 KV-1C tanks around this city, i don't think that was triggered.
All units trying to cross the river in the center were easily dealt with. The area in hands of the russians got smaller with every turn and greatly thanks to the Luftwaffe, they really do a great job in dealing the first blow to those infernal russian tanks. At some points the battle was intense, in which i lost another T-34 (again one i found in this map) and an SE PzIIIJ/1. Overall i can say that the russians are getting stronger by each scenario and more difficult to vanquish. A solid scenario and not to be underestimated.
I finished in 12/20 with 3489PP.
Screenshot of the furthest advance of the russians. I denied them the other shore of the river in the center.
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
Kharkov
Starting prestige 4800
Prestige after reinforcements 1800
Ending prestige 5100
No losses
DV on turn 20 (though I could have achieved one on turn 15, I dragged things out a bit to maximize prestige. Yeah, such dishonorable tactics shouldn't be practised by a German Panzer Corps commander, but hey, Panzer IVGs are coming out and I need some.
This was a very fascinating and complex scenario that I think has the potential to unfold in a lot of different ways, much like the historical second battle of Kharkov. My strategy was to form a defensive line on the Donets while the bulk of my strength would be in my two pincers in the north and south which would encircle and destroy the Soviet troops at Izyum. This was basically the historical German plan actually, but much like the actual battle, things had to be improvised on the fly when faced with the strength of the Soviet offensive.
The Soviets managed to cross the Donets at a couple points so the southern pincer had to be diverted north to try to prevent a large scale breakthrough, and just like in reality, I was left with a one-armed pincer to try to swing around and attack Izyum from the rear. My northern group advanced unopposed until the Soviets seemed to pull back the majority of their forces from the Donets area to confront them. This battle was a slow slog, but the Soviet retreat from the Donets allowed my units in the center and a small flanking force in the south to go on the offensive. On turn 11, my Northern pincer had nearly won the day and my troops in the Center and South crossed the Donets but had to pull back because a huge group of six KV1s spawned at Izyum, the final objective. It took a few turns to clear these out but by turn 15 decisive victory could have been declared.
A very, very entertaining scenario that seems like it has a great deal of potential for trying different strategies. Another A+ scenario, 1942 is once again raising the bar.
-Edit I didn't realize it until I made it to the deployment screen for the next scenario but I apparently captured a T-34(41) at some point. Score!
Starting prestige 4800
Prestige after reinforcements 1800
Ending prestige 5100
No losses
DV on turn 20 (though I could have achieved one on turn 15, I dragged things out a bit to maximize prestige. Yeah, such dishonorable tactics shouldn't be practised by a German Panzer Corps commander, but hey, Panzer IVGs are coming out and I need some.
This was a very fascinating and complex scenario that I think has the potential to unfold in a lot of different ways, much like the historical second battle of Kharkov. My strategy was to form a defensive line on the Donets while the bulk of my strength would be in my two pincers in the north and south which would encircle and destroy the Soviet troops at Izyum. This was basically the historical German plan actually, but much like the actual battle, things had to be improvised on the fly when faced with the strength of the Soviet offensive.
The Soviets managed to cross the Donets at a couple points so the southern pincer had to be diverted north to try to prevent a large scale breakthrough, and just like in reality, I was left with a one-armed pincer to try to swing around and attack Izyum from the rear. My northern group advanced unopposed until the Soviets seemed to pull back the majority of their forces from the Donets area to confront them. This battle was a slow slog, but the Soviet retreat from the Donets allowed my units in the center and a small flanking force in the south to go on the offensive. On turn 11, my Northern pincer had nearly won the day and my troops in the Center and South crossed the Donets but had to pull back because a huge group of six KV1s spawned at Izyum, the final objective. It took a few turns to clear these out but by turn 15 decisive victory could have been declared.
A very, very entertaining scenario that seems like it has a great deal of potential for trying different strategies. Another A+ scenario, 1942 is once again raising the bar.
-Edit I didn't realize it until I made it to the deployment screen for the next scenario but I apparently captured a T-34(41) at some point. Score!
Work-In-Progress!
2736 Start PP
Screenshot turn 7/20
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4750/20111217184343.jpg
I am making good use of the IIIF StuGs, backed up by IIIB StuGs and self-propelled artillery.
They serve as roadblock to protect the IV/F2 and IIIJ who are more vulnerable to Russian tanks.
Especially if ever a 85mm ATG gets to fire at them, what I try to avoid.
Summary: Nice StuGs! They work now great in tandem with the tanks.
Nice that there are so many Russian fighters, my Bf110 are more in anti-fighter than bomber mode.
Scenario-related: This shows what happens if you get encircled by the enemy and terrain. As it is a defensive scenario it is going to be a PRESTIGE MINE.
I find the scenario very interesting and engaging to play. Seems to be meant to motivate the player after the rather prestige-intensive previous scenario.
-> http://www.picpick.org/ I use this little tool to take screenshots when FRAPS doesn't work. It's very useful besides that, maybe you will like it, too.
END Prestige: 3413
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5480/2 ... 194820.jpg
Achieved by milking the last remaining soviet unit till turn 20!
Summary:
It was interesting how quickly the Soviet offensive collapsed once it got stalled and encircled. Despite quite good and strong air support and some AA units.
This scenario is going to be a massive "Prestige Mine" as I called it. Maybe that's intended!
I really loved it! Wouldn't change it at all.
2736 Start PP
Screenshot turn 7/20
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4750/20111217184343.jpg
I am making good use of the IIIF StuGs, backed up by IIIB StuGs and self-propelled artillery.
They serve as roadblock to protect the IV/F2 and IIIJ who are more vulnerable to Russian tanks.
Especially if ever a 85mm ATG gets to fire at them, what I try to avoid.
Summary: Nice StuGs! They work now great in tandem with the tanks.
Nice that there are so many Russian fighters, my Bf110 are more in anti-fighter than bomber mode.
Scenario-related: This shows what happens if you get encircled by the enemy and terrain. As it is a defensive scenario it is going to be a PRESTIGE MINE.
I find the scenario very interesting and engaging to play. Seems to be meant to motivate the player after the rather prestige-intensive previous scenario.
-> http://www.picpick.org/ I use this little tool to take screenshots when FRAPS doesn't work. It's very useful besides that, maybe you will like it, too.
END Prestige: 3413
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5480/2 ... 194820.jpg
Achieved by milking the last remaining soviet unit till turn 20!
Summary:
It was interesting how quickly the Soviet offensive collapsed once it got stalled and encircled. Despite quite good and strong air support and some AA units.
This scenario is going to be a massive "Prestige Mine" as I called it. Maybe that's intended!
I really loved it! Wouldn't change it at all.
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deadtorius
- Field Marshal - Me 410A
- Posts: 5287
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:41 am
I liked this one too, even though General Mudsikov was present at the beginning of the game. I still have to get used to seeing the mud disappear and the green grass return on the Russian turn. Like everyone else I had 2 pincers and was holding the back side of the center river. The poor Hungarians were pretty much slaughtered by the Red Horde, but the aux stuka managed to sneak off with 1 step and then returned to an airfield to get reinforced and used throughout the rest of the game. The aux KV sold itself dearly, it took 3 or 4 turns for the Russkis to finally kill it so they were held at bay for a bit. My northern pincer ended up splitting as the Russians got a few infantry and tanks across the first river and it looked like they were going to move north behind me, so I diverted a few tanks and stugs to deal with that and then brought my river defenders across to hold the Hungarian positions.
The southern pincer got off to a slow start due to the mud, and then saw a Hungarian garrison get killed by a mixed soviet tank infantry force that then disappeared. When I found them again I had to split my southern pincer and also move a tank in from river defence to recapture the objective city on the west side of the map. One of the highlights of this was when the little soviet armoured AA tank tried to drive across the river and ran into my KV as an ambush, it was a one shot kill for the KV. that thing had become a real pain shooting at my airforce constantly. One thing I have noticed is that the Stug III's don't stand up well to infantry attacks, mine took a real beating from the red infantry if they could get close. Once the initial assault wave was stopped it was Blitzkrieg time again as I rolled up with both my pincers and moved in with the center forces as well. the southern pincer got caught up down in the south corner trying to force its way across the river against a KV defence. I sent in my Stug AT backed by a Stug III to try and force their way across with no luck. It was not until the central force started to make its appearance that the KV finally moved off the river and allowed me at the artillery and AA gun. Actually it ended up as a massive tank traffic jam with all my forces trying to squeeze into that corner. The northern pincer had swung down all the way to the city and was moving into the backside of it while the Luftwaffe was free to stuka the defenders to death.
Managed a DV on that one with about 3 turns to spare. It looks daunting when you see the posts above but it is easy enough to defend the rivers and the PZ IV's seem to be able to handle most of the soviet tanks at this stage and the infantry is dead meat in the open so once momentum starts you just keep rolling. I liked it as is. A challenge and enjoyable too. The Hungarians slow the Russian advance just enough to make it easy to build that counter attack.
The southern pincer got off to a slow start due to the mud, and then saw a Hungarian garrison get killed by a mixed soviet tank infantry force that then disappeared. When I found them again I had to split my southern pincer and also move a tank in from river defence to recapture the objective city on the west side of the map. One of the highlights of this was when the little soviet armoured AA tank tried to drive across the river and ran into my KV as an ambush, it was a one shot kill for the KV. that thing had become a real pain shooting at my airforce constantly. One thing I have noticed is that the Stug III's don't stand up well to infantry attacks, mine took a real beating from the red infantry if they could get close. Once the initial assault wave was stopped it was Blitzkrieg time again as I rolled up with both my pincers and moved in with the center forces as well. the southern pincer got caught up down in the south corner trying to force its way across the river against a KV defence. I sent in my Stug AT backed by a Stug III to try and force their way across with no luck. It was not until the central force started to make its appearance that the KV finally moved off the river and allowed me at the artillery and AA gun. Actually it ended up as a massive tank traffic jam with all my forces trying to squeeze into that corner. The northern pincer had swung down all the way to the city and was moving into the backside of it while the Luftwaffe was free to stuka the defenders to death.
Managed a DV on that one with about 3 turns to spare. It looks daunting when you see the posts above but it is easy enough to defend the rivers and the PZ IV's seem to be able to handle most of the soviet tanks at this stage and the infantry is dead meat in the open so once momentum starts you just keep rolling. I liked it as is. A challenge and enjoyable too. The Hungarians slow the Russian advance just enough to make it easy to build that counter attack.
Kharkov42
Level: FM
Starting prestige: 7796
Uprades: 3x Bf109E >> G, 8x Pz IVF >> IVF/2
Purchase: 1x Stug IIIB
Reinforcement core/aux: Elite/Normal
Result; after n-turn: DV; 15/20
Losses core/aux: 0/9
Expecting some heavy assaults, I decide to use the naturally border of the Dontes River to set up a line of defense ranging form Chuhuiv to Balakliya. There (so my plans) the Soviet waves should crack up. In the north I plan to hold Burluk and take the cities in the NE of the map, including Troits'ke. In the south, I'd move North and East to the borders of the Donets, canalising the red flood.
This time, I'll probably lose some aux forces that are deployed around Izyum. I'm in heavy doubts if they can retreat behind the safe Donets.
Things went better than expected. The first wave was destroyed on the eastern border of the Donets as planed. By turn 9, Izyum was retaken and some forces were knocking at the doors of Severodonetsk.
The seccond wave was quite a surprise, woha! Thanks to my defensive line up though, those KV-1 monsters where beatable. The last VH at Svatove took a bit of combined effort as the AI started to spread units around it.
Until now, this scenario is probably the best in the whole DLC's. I specially like those epic panzer battles.
I also like very much the surprising moment of the seccond wave with those KV-1C.
Level: FM
Starting prestige: 7796
Uprades: 3x Bf109E >> G, 8x Pz IVF >> IVF/2
Purchase: 1x Stug IIIB
Reinforcement core/aux: Elite/Normal
Result; after n-turn: DV; 15/20
Losses core/aux: 0/9
Expecting some heavy assaults, I decide to use the naturally border of the Dontes River to set up a line of defense ranging form Chuhuiv to Balakliya. There (so my plans) the Soviet waves should crack up. In the north I plan to hold Burluk and take the cities in the NE of the map, including Troits'ke. In the south, I'd move North and East to the borders of the Donets, canalising the red flood.
This time, I'll probably lose some aux forces that are deployed around Izyum. I'm in heavy doubts if they can retreat behind the safe Donets.
Things went better than expected. The first wave was destroyed on the eastern border of the Donets as planed. By turn 9, Izyum was retaken and some forces were knocking at the doors of Severodonetsk.
The seccond wave was quite a surprise, woha! Thanks to my defensive line up though, those KV-1 monsters where beatable. The last VH at Svatove took a bit of combined effort as the AI started to spread units around it.
Until now, this scenario is probably the best in the whole DLC's. I specially like those epic panzer battles.
I also like very much the surprising moment of the seccond wave with those KV-1C.
Kharkov
Again on 'general' difficulty. I decided to be aggressive in my defense making it an attack much as the Wehrmacht did in the spring, 1942. The Red Army never really managed to breach the first river line and was ground up trying to make their advance there by reinforcements and the great work of the Luftwaffe. Meanwhile, the two flanking pincers drove forward without much opposition though the northern group encountered somewhat more resistance.
Again, I lost that Wehrmact infantry unit defending the first river line. It simply did not have the experience to provide significant defense once the initial group of Romanians was lost and the Pak '50 retreated while still in one piece.
DV in 12 turns.
Again on 'general' difficulty. I decided to be aggressive in my defense making it an attack much as the Wehrmacht did in the spring, 1942. The Red Army never really managed to breach the first river line and was ground up trying to make their advance there by reinforcements and the great work of the Luftwaffe. Meanwhile, the two flanking pincers drove forward without much opposition though the northern group encountered somewhat more resistance.
Again, I lost that Wehrmact infantry unit defending the first river line. It simply did not have the experience to provide significant defense once the initial group of Romanians was lost and the Pak '50 retreated while still in one piece.
DV in 12 turns.
Kharkov 42
Somehow I captured another T34??? I didn’t even notice until the deployment screen. Must have been from the last scenario.
Split my army into 3, the central holding group and the north and south flanking groups. The central group held position while my other two forces counterattacked immediately into the Russian flanks. The counterattacks were very successful and completely routed the Russians. The central group had no problem holding back the main Russian assault. The AI bought about 5 KV1-C tanks to delay my advance into the middle, and those took quite a while to kill, although they weren’t very threatening.
AI air opposition felt just about right. The AI fighters were easy to shoot down with the Bf-109G, but there were quite a few of them, and it took nearly the entire scenario to clear the skies.
The AI ground assault, though, was a bit lacking. Perhaps I was a bit too scared by the previous scenario on Manstein, but this one was very easy for me to defeat. The AI could use more mobile artillery in particular. I did lose an infantry unit to a decent AI counterattack, so that is something, and on numerous occasions my tanks did come close to dying. The AI didn’t really hit hard, their advance was uncoordinated and lackluster. I was pleased to note that when I approached the third group of Russian units with my northern flanking force, they activated and attacked instead of sitting idle.
DV 15ish/20.
Somehow I captured another T34??? I didn’t even notice until the deployment screen. Must have been from the last scenario.
Split my army into 3, the central holding group and the north and south flanking groups. The central group held position while my other two forces counterattacked immediately into the Russian flanks. The counterattacks were very successful and completely routed the Russians. The central group had no problem holding back the main Russian assault. The AI bought about 5 KV1-C tanks to delay my advance into the middle, and those took quite a while to kill, although they weren’t very threatening.
AI air opposition felt just about right. The AI fighters were easy to shoot down with the Bf-109G, but there were quite a few of them, and it took nearly the entire scenario to clear the skies.
The AI ground assault, though, was a bit lacking. Perhaps I was a bit too scared by the previous scenario on Manstein, but this one was very easy for me to defeat. The AI could use more mobile artillery in particular. I did lose an infantry unit to a decent AI counterattack, so that is something, and on numerous occasions my tanks did come close to dying. The AI didn’t really hit hard, their advance was uncoordinated and lackluster. I was pleased to note that when I approached the third group of Russian units with my northern flanking force, they activated and attacked instead of sitting idle.
DV 15ish/20.
Great Scenario
Everyone else pretty well covered this battle in their posts. Another great scenario for a great game!
No bugs...playability excellent again.
I too found it easy to advance rapidly (somewhat with the rain) to the Donets river and hold them from advancing. The KV's are brutal but personally I'd like to see a few (just a few) over-strength KV Russian units really push their spearhead a bit deeper.
No bugs...playability excellent again.
I too found it easy to advance rapidly (somewhat with the rain) to the Donets river and hold them from advancing. The KV's are brutal but personally I'd like to see a few (just a few) over-strength KV Russian units really push their spearhead a bit deeper.
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Blathergut
- Field Marshal - Elefant
- Posts: 5882
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:44 am
- Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Started with the core from this campaign. The Russian KVs killed everything in their paths. The Russians broke over the river from the southern bridge and below and were only stopped by the entire southern attack force coming up and all available air committed to stopping them. All prestige was used up as it became available. A DV was obtained by sheer luck on the last turn.
Perhaps a couple more SE units? They seemed to stand up a bit better against the KV hits. All other tanks died in at most two hits.
Scenario 3 is started now with mangled units and a bit over 2000 prestige.
Perhaps a couple more SE units? They seemed to stand up a bit better against the KV hits. All other tanks died in at most two hits.
Scenario 3 is started now with mangled units and a bit over 2000 prestige.