My idea: "Clash of Steel" large WWII Europe scenar

[Ritterkreuz]

Since the mechanics in PC work well and the concept allows scaling from tactical to strategical battles, and scripting is also possible, my humble idea would be a huge WWII scenario like with those old games "Clash of Steel" or "High Command" with a huge map and 255 turns.
I mean it needs a bit of minor changes like coupling prestige to cities held or something like that.
But I would adore the idea to carry tanks from one front to another via rail or trade off buying Anti-Air for protection of Ploesti versus new Tanks for the East front.

How about that?



(I mean if you make it a new game of it and make me pay some more bucks, I don't mind relating it to the fun I had with Clash of Steel.)

[Iscaran]

Its already there.

Called "Strategic Command" and "Strategic Command 2"

[Ritterkreuz]

Its already there.

Called "Strategic Command" and "Strategic Command 2"

That's nothing to do with PC, and that is no fun.

[macattack]

Since the mechanics in PC work well and the concept allows scaling from tactical to strategical battles, and scripting is also possible, my humble idea would be a huge WWII scenario like with those old games

They do have World of Flames in the works.

That sounds like a huge-scale game.

[flakfernrohr]

Let me share with you my experience in making large maps and complicated scenarios with lots of units. Earlier this fall I started to make some maps for a Post Kursk Scenario with Kursk being a German Victory (which despite much written history, it almost was).

Manstein had made an alternative plan to Citadel called Backhand. In it the Germans would attack further south and move to Rostov and back to the Volga & Stalingrad rolling up the Soviets to relieve the pressure on the troops in the Caucasus region.

Chief of Staff Zeitzler was a proponent of attacking the Kursk Bulge and the result was Operation Citadel. He won out when both of the plans were pitched to Hitler and the General Staff. Theoretically the next move would have either been to Moscow or Rostov and Stalingrad to finish off what was left of the Soviet armored forces. That is where my maps began. I made one large map from the eastern edge of the Kursk battlefield heading north to about 50KM north of Moscow and to the Volga River from there to Stalingrad in the south, including Rostov on the Don. This map was big (500km x 660km) and needed lots of units. When I finished that map, I made another one from the Oka River east of Moscow to the Volga and Kazan, Yoshkar-Ola, etc. Then another map from there to the Urals and Tankograd. These maps were just so big, that when you tried to move units, there were so many it became just too much to keep track of, not to mention the abilities of the AI to handle the load of so many units on so many hexes. The scale was either 5km or 7km per hex. I spent most of my game time scrolling instead of doing other more enjoyable tasks of the game. It was just TOO much with so many units to command for my forces and so many to keep track of and think about on the Soviet side on such a large playing map. It hurts my head to remember.

So I cut the big maps all down to smaller maps because of the recommendations of those more knowledgeable than me about PzC and its capabilities and my own experience in trying to manage over 120-150 seperate individual units on a map that I had to scroll constantly to keep track of everything. My idea was good in theory, but not so good in practicality. The biggest of my maps now is about 40X60 and it is plenty big. I wound up with 22 seperate maps for scenarios I am still working on from the original four maps I made.

A person usually doesn't try to eat a large slice of good cake in one bite, they take smaller bites for obvious reasons and it is much more enjoyable. Same can be said for a bottle of Prime Vodka from Kharkiv. Little at a time is much much better.

One thing to bear in mind for large maps, the usual PzC map is fairly plain jane vanilla in details. And it is much much smaller than four maps I made in the beginning. I wanted the maps to be interesting and play interesting, so they are FULL of details. Almost every hex has something in or on it. Anything else on a huge map is not going to look very good. So when I broke down the big maps, the smaller maps are highly detailed and have spoiled me to enjoying playing on this style of map more than the plain vanilla maps. Show me a big map for PzC and I will be thinking of how it can be cut up and down into playable scenarios linked into a campaign. Have fun!

[Razz1]

What you want is the DLC's.

They will take you from one part of Russia to the next. From scenario to scenario via the campaign.

If you wish to try a big map like that, be prepared for the AI to take 2 to 3 minutes to move at the start. Then as the battle begins it will even take longer 5 minutes plus.

We tried large maps and they are not suited for this engine. However feel free to do it.

[Rood]

[...]those old games "Clash of Steel" or "High Command" with a huge map and 255 turns.[...]

Aah High Command, that brings back some good old memories. I loved that game!

From what I read Time Of Fury (just released I noticed ) is gonna be a worthy successor!

[Razz1]

Actually Time of Fury is far superior.

[Ritterkreuz]

Let me share with you my experience in making large maps and complicated scenarios with lots of units. Earlier this fall I started to make some maps for a Post Kursk Scenario with Kursk being a German Victory (which despite much written history, it almost was).

Most people don't know, but Manstein in its "Verlorene Sieger" gives a different picture

These maps were just so big, that when you tried to move units, there were so many it became just too much to keep track of, not to mention the abilities of the AI to handle the load of so many units on so many hexes. The scale was either 5km or 7km per hex. I spent most of my game time scrolling instead of doing other more enjoyable tasks of the game. It was just TOO much with so many units to command for my forces and so many to keep track of and think about on the Soviet side on such a large playing map. It hurts my head to remember.

I remember the situation of big hexes and huhe maps from PG1, you are surprised to see your second battlegroup on the same screen than your first one.[/quote]
However in PC, you can zoom out, and the Berlin in the end scenarios are almost Europe-size, so I don't believe that this is the point

If you wish to try a big map like that, be prepared for the AI to take 2 to 3 minutes to move at the start. Then as the battle begins it will even take longer 5 minutes plus.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem waiting a couple of minutes for a computer move, in fact I would be happy to do that if that would pay off in the quality of the AI (a causality ratio of like now 1:100 is not very realistic)
I mean with a chess computer unless you are blitzing, you got to wait as well.
I'm not critisizing at all, just expressing my humble thoughts. I am a very happy PC Player.

[gunhojr]

the game making history is bigger then strategic command dont know if anyone has played it but there is a huge map of the world.

[TheGrayMouser]

Since the mechanics in PC work well and the concept allows scaling from tactical to strategical battles, and scripting is also possible, my humble idea would be a huge WWII scenario like with those old games "Clash of Steel" or "High Command" with a huge map and 255 turns.
I mean it needs a bit of minor changes like coupling prestige to cities held or something like that.
But I would adore the idea to carry tanks from one front to another via rail or trade off buying Anti-Air for protection of Ploesti versus new Tanks for the East front.

How about that?



(I mean if you make it a new game of it and make me pay some more bucks, I don't mind relating it to the fun I had with Clash of Steel.)

If your looking for big PG style, check out this fans work
http://web.utk.edu/~pa117408/
He basically comes out with a new version every couple of weeks

[Ritterkreuz]

Since the mechanics in PC work well and the concept allows scaling from tactical to strategical battles, and scripting is also possible, my humble idea would be a huge WWII scenario like with those old games "Clash of Steel" or "High Command" with a huge map and 255 turns.
I mean it needs a bit of minor changes like coupling prestige to cities held or something like that.
But I would adore the idea to carry tanks from one front to another via rail or trade off buying Anti-Air for protection of Ploesti versus new Tanks for the East front.

How about that?



(I mean if you make it a new game of it and make me pay some more bucks, I don't mind relating it to the fun I had with Clash of Steel.)

If your looking for big PG style, check out this fans work
http://web.utk.edu/~pa117408/
He basically comes out with a new version every couple of weeks

I saw that at panzercentral.com. I tried it a year ago, however I would make it crash after a few steps evey time.
The PC-engine is stable and looks nice.