SE Unit Question

[impar]

The fact that bonus units do not take up a deployment slot is the single most important feature about them. If we remove this, the player would always be trapped in a dilemma - use his old veteran units, with more experience and maybe more heroes, or "cool" new SE units which do not have that yet. Either way you need to leave some unit in the reserve (or even disband it) because you only have one slot. I don't want the players to face decisions like that, this kills the RPG aspect of the campaign.

Thinking that the end result will be a core of SE Infantry and Armour accompanied by ground support (ART, AT, REC and AA) and Luftwaffe units (planes).

[AgentX]

P.S. how many of the not so good players read the forum? It's us, the guys who really wouldn't need the SE units who know how they get assigned...
Following that logic SE units are there to make things even easier for experienced players... doh.

I don't follow the logic here. With existing scheme all players benefit equally from SE units, no matter if they read the forum or not.

I believe he is saying that people who read the forums know that you can exploit the current system by reloading until you get them. Since most of the experienced players probably know of this exploit, that's why Longsac is suggesting that it makes it "even easier for experienced players... doh." Personally, I still like having them awarded at set intervals for winning historic battles (DV or MV): a reward everyone gets and can't be exploited by experienced players. It also puts an added emphasis on keeping your SE units alive since they can't be replaced until the next interval/historic battle. Anyways, that's my 2 cents..... guess I'll just continue to exploit the current system since I want my SE units and hate leaving it to random luck.

[Longasc]

Exactly, AgentX

We know how much people love their SE units. Just remember how horrible it was for people that there was no chance to get a SE tank in Poland and what people did to have all SE tanks from 1940 onward. The disbanding of the final SE unit for Prestige is also practiced by many players.

Sure, there is no chance to stop players if they want to play and exploit a system to the max. But the way SE units work at the moment really cries for it.
I really don't like this 30% gamble for a free extra unit ! Should be quite obvious by now.

Maybe I should end every posting with "Ceterum censeo regulae auxilii extraordinarii esse immutare."

[AgentX]

The disbanding of the final SE unit for Prestige is also practiced by many players

Forgot about that exploit for getting extra prestige each round. I don't use it myself, though, because I prefer to field all my SE units each scenario. So, the current system can be exploited two ways: reload until you get all your SE units and continually disband your final SE unit to gain extra prestige per round. Both of which the inexperienced or non-forum reading players are probably not even aware of. If the SE units were given at set intervals/historic battles, I don't think it could be exploited as easily, if at all. Plus, since they couldn't be easily replaced (by continually reloading the next scenario until you got another one), you would have to put more value on keeping them alive.

Either way. I'm fine with the current system since I know how to get all my SE units. I just thought having them at set intervals would help out the inexperienced and non-forum reading players more than a random system. I also think a nice touch would be some additional info in the briefing that pops up when awarded one. I often read of new players not even being aware that SE units don't take up a deployment slot. That's something that should be explained better in the game since that is their primary benefit (not everyone reads the manual or the forum). Or, does that pop up when you have "tutorial messages" on? If so, it would probably be better in the award pop up briefing since they may have turned it off before getting their first one.

[Aloo]

I often read of new players not even being aware that SE units don't take up a deployment slot.

That is true. I finished the main campaign the first time not knowing this. I was surprised that the unit counter looses count sometimes during deployment but I was thinking this is a bug.

But I like the random SE distribution and don't feel the need to exploit the system.

[Casaubon]

Game mechanics should return prestige only if you disband normal core units and nothing for SE disbands. you should get money back only if you payed!
I dont understand people ABUSING exploits, if the game is too difficult for them they should play in noob level instead. I am even more radical than that, I would suggest to allow game saving/ loading only in between battles (after victory) to avoid player reloads after unit losses.
boom - your tank is dead. live with it or start over.

[Akaoz]

Game mechanics should return prestige only if you disband normal core units and nothing for SE disbands. you should get money back only if you payed!
I dont understand people ABUSING exploits, if the game is too difficult for them they should play in noob level instead. I am even more radical than that, I would suggest to allow game saving/ loading only in between battles (after victory) to avoid player reloads after unit losses.
boom - your tank is dead. live with it or start over.

People should be able to play the game however they want. Have you noticed the thread with all the cheat-codes that's sticked on top of the forum?

That said, I would min an "Ironman" mode that only allowed saving between scenarios. But that would be an option. Some people just want a difficulty in between regular and "n00b", and who are you to deny them that?

[Rudankort]

Game mechanics should return prestige only if you disband normal core units and nothing for SE disbands. you should get money back only if you payed!

The problem is, you get your SE units for free, but you do spend a bunch of money on upgrading them, and the game has no idea if any given unit is new, or upgraded several times already. And even if the game could distinguish them internally, it would be confusing for people. So let it be the way it is. SE unit is a gift, you can use it as a free additional unit, or exchange it for some money - not a big deal.

And if you routinely disband SE units and reload until you get new one, you can as well just use "prestige" cheat. It is cheating either way.

[Casaubon]

I just think that having no ability to save/load within tactical missions adds to overall suspension like it was in some old games. I know it´s never gonna be that way again, just saying my personal minority opinion and telling the way I would implement it in my own game.

[brettz123]

The reason why SE units are not a reward for performance is that good player has a lot of other awards already, he does not need even more material bonuses, or the game might become too boring for him. Good players have more prestige, take less casualties and have an overall stronger core force. Poor player, on the other hand, needs all help he can get, and SE units can come very handy.

We could give SE units to poor players only (after all, High Command gives them "to ensure success of the operation", and the doubts about success can appear only in case the player has weak core force and bad results in past campaigns). But we wanted all players to enjoy the SE units and have some fun with them. After all, good players should not have a penalty for good performance either. So, all players have an equal chance to get an SE unit.

As for "SE units shop", we wanted SE units to serve a different purpose in the game. There are elements which you can plan (in particular equipment types of your units, green/elite replacements, overstrength) and elements which are random. Random elements add some variety to campaign replays because you cannot have them in just one "optimal" way, this aspect is not under your control. Heroes, as well as SE units, fall in this category.

So that's the reason why SE units work as they do.

It would be nice if there was more variety to the SE units. For instance if you could get an AT gun or an armored car. While the infantry and armor is certainly more useful it would be cool if you at least had the option to take some of the things you would never really consider putting more of in your core or putting in at all.

[brettz123]

In the random is random / RNG debate I am on your side, but not regarding SE units.

I can't influence a random dice roll, but I have a choice when to take a risk or not, while the SE unit stuff is a pure gamble influenced by nothing at all. Even the weather is more predictable than SE unit assignment.

I see what you are saying but most players should have their full alllotment of 3 SE units in fairly good time. I have played through the standard campaign 4 times now and had all mine filled out at the beginning of Kursk. I like it random because it means I can't plan to have this many during any given scenario.

One thing though with the DLC campaign I do not want to see too many SE units. I would just prefer my core be increased instead of seeing more than 5 or 6 SE units. They are cool but when you get too many it just seems a little too much. It would also be nice if we had some options to choose from instead of just being given something. Maybe the option of a tank, and infantry unit, tank destroyer, or an armored car. At least then we would be able to take the unit and fit it in with our plans a little more!

[Ritterkreuz]

My impression is that if you click-away the briefing at the end of a scenario or at the beginning of the new scenario before it is read out, you won't be granted one.

There was one time when I was granted a Panzer III after Greece, but I quit without saving, so I tried to get the tank again by loading the last situation and finishing the scenario. I did it like 25 times before I got my tank, and I never got anything when I didn't wait for the briefing to finish.