Finland and Romania? - and several other questions.

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Mark50
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Finland and Romania? - and several other questions.

Post by Mark50 »

First of all congratulations on including Slovakian units! I think it`s a first for the PG series. Secondly, after playing the main 1939 campaign(not the dlc) up to London I couldn`t help but noticing that I have not encountered any finnish or romanian units. Looking at the scenarios I see that Romania is only present at Stalingrad and I`m not sure Finland appears anywhere. What worries me is that reading the list of missions in the dlc campaigns I don`t see any change in this regard. Am I missing something? Personally I liked the diversity of countries(with their specific units) that Panzer General 2 had and was hoping to see this maintained in Panzer Corps.

And that said, is there any plan to add more units to the game? I`m looking at the Romanian roster at Stalingrad and it`s very basic. No aircraft, no tanks... And I think it`s the same with other axis powers like Bulgaria and Hungary. EDIT: I`m looking at my default truck avatar. I was hoping I could have an image of the IAR-80 from PC. Any chance of that happening? :D
Last edited by Mark50 on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rudankort
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Post by Rudankort »

Yes, of course new units will be added. In fact, some new units are being added in the patches all the time. But we add new units when we need them for a specific purpose. For example, Finland will likely appear when we get to soviet campaign in WW2.
Mark50
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Post by Mark50 »

Thanks for the reply! By soviet campaign you mean a campaign played on the side of the Soviet Union or a campaign played with the Axis powers against the Soviet Union?
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Post by macattack »

If memory serves me correctly, didn't Finland have an Alpine infantry that skied? So it had bonus movement.
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Post by Razz1 »

In this case all Mountain troops move three in any hex and any weather conditions, so ski would not count as extra movement. A +1 initiative would be better.
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Post by Rudankort »

Mark50 wrote:Thanks for the reply! By soviet campaign you mean a campaign played on the side of the Soviet Union or a campaign played with the Axis powers against the Soviet Union?
I mean campaign played on the side of the Soviet Union, where Winter War might be featured.
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Post by VPaulus »

Rudankort wrote: I mean campaign played on the side of the Soviet Union, where Winter War might be featured.
Yes. Please.
Just give me a small Winter War campaign. :D
Mark50
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Post by Mark50 »

Rudankort wrote: I mean campaign played on the side of the Soviet Union, where Winter War might be featured.
I see. So - if I`m reading correctly between the lines - in an Axis campaign Finland won`t appear at all and since there doesn`t seem to be any real focus on army group south up to Stalingrad(which is already included in the main campaign) I`m guessing you won`t really have a need to buff up Romania above the infantry/antitank/artillery level in any future DLC. But once the DLC year mission packs for the Axis campaign are done I fear it will move to "it`s up to the modding community"/"by this stage adding more units and missions won`t sell any more copies of the game"(which is something I`ve experienced with other games). With all the content being made and obvious support for the game I was a bit overwhelmed into getting the impression that it will be very all inclusive in all regards so was really looking forward to choosing which army group to take in a Barbarossa campaign for example. And leaning towards either south or north because frankly I`m a bit tired of army group center. I remember in PG2 when I reached America that I had various allied units in the army, from Finland to Romania to Italy and iirc even a spanish unit. :D Was very fun for me hence the disappointment here. Still, Panzer Corps is a good game and I don`t mean to belittle your work. Just noticing that it follows a different concept than I was personally hoping for.
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Post by Rudankort »

DLCs will give the north and south army groups more attention (see the list of scenarios for DLC '41, http://www.slitherine.com/games/pzc_DLC_3). But even in the battle around Leningrad the involvement of Finland was minimal. Germans wanted Finland to attack the city from the north, but this did not happen, mostly they were interested in taking territory which they lost in Winter War. I don't think it is realistic to expect finnish troops in USA as part of german core. ;)

But yeah, I understand that you expected something else which PzC does not have. Sorry for that. :)
Mark50
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Post by Mark50 »

Rudankort wrote:DLCs will give the north and south army groups more attention (see the list of scenarios for DLC '41, http://www.slitherine.com/games/pzc_DLC_3). But even in the battle around Leningrad the involvement of Finland was minimal.
Yes, I saw the Leningrad41 on that list and it`s what you`ve said that made me expect little or no presence at all on the part of the Finnish army. Personally I would have liked to see the winter war(and able to play Finland).
I don't think it is realistic to expect finnish troops in USA as part of german core. ;)
Oh, let`s not go down that road of strict "historical accuracy" in games. There are only casualties and no winners in such "battles". :D From my personal experience with other games. The entire USA campaign is entirely hypothetical of course and since the game puts the player in the position to command all the major operations in the war on this side of the front than he/she can invade USA with whoever he/she wants. :D On a more detailed level if you really feel the need for justification there are plenty excuses for such a scenario(like the need to present it as a multinational campaign, the need to minimize casualties on your core units or the presence of "volunteer" units without official state backing etc.). So it`s just stretched, not wholly absurd. Frankly, with anyone powerful in Europe gone I don`t see how someone could just refuse to go along with a request for troops.

Speaking of which. I haven`t tried so far due to the scarcity of alternatives, but do you mean that you can`t hire foreign units as part of your core army(the one that follows you around)?
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Post by Rudankort »

Mark50 wrote:Speaking of which. I haven`t tried so far due to the scarcity of alternatives, but do you mean that you can`t hire foreign units as part of your core army(the one that follows you around)?
No you can not.
Mark50
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Post by Mark50 »

A bit off topic, but no point in starting a new thread just for this. I have two more questions:

1. I`ve read that the 2d units a la PG(1) was a conscious decision, but I`ve seen no details as to why. If I understand correctly the units do exist in 3d so that their renders look good(and they do btw). Is there a post that I can`t find that details the devs` view on this subject? Was it a technical or purely esthetic decision?

2. Have you considered doing a pacific general game too if panzer corps does well(which I hope it will)?

EDIT: one more: is the avatar updating itself depending on the number of posts?
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Post by Rudankort »

Mark50 wrote: 1. I`ve read that the 2d units a la PG(1) was a conscious decision, but I`ve seen no details as to why. If I understand correctly the units do exist in 3d so that their renders look good(and they do btw). Is there a post that I can`t find that details the devs` view on this subject? Was it a technical or purely esthetic decision?
I posted about it somewhere, but don't remember where. In brief, profile view of the units looks better than any other in most cases, is by far the most recognizable, and the battlefield looks much more smooth and uniform when the units are not facing in different directions. Also, this allowed us to keep overlaps of unit icons under control and have the icons as big as possible (there would be much more overlap between tanks facing upwards/downwards etc.). Of course, this saved us some work too, in particular with animations which we did not need to render in many different directions. And as a bonus, we were able to save some RAM.
Mark50 wrote: 2. Have you considered doing a pacific general game too if panzer corps does well(which I hope it will)?
We are considering all fronts and battles in WW2, Pacific included, but it is too early to go into details on this.
Mark50 wrote: EDIT: one more: is the avatar updating itself depending on the number of posts?
Yes.
Mark50
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Post by Mark50 »

If you were to make an allied campaign how would you design it in terms of its course? Since you`ve mentioned a soviet campaign I`m guessing you`d split it between east and west. But would the west be a single campaign basically following the battles that involved the british or a compendium of campaigns depending on the dominant power(british, american and maybe even french)?
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Post by Rudankort »

Mark50 wrote:If you were to make an allied campaign how would you design it in terms of its course? Since you`ve mentioned a soviet campaign I`m guessing you`d split it between east and west. But would the west be a single campaign basically following the battles that involved the british or a compendium of campaigns depending on the dominant power(british, american and maybe even french)?
Here again, it is too early to say what the allied campaign(s) will be like. We got a lot of good feedback on the german campaign, as well as DLCs, and we'll try to take all this feedback into account when designing allied stuff. I'm pretty sure the soviets will be separate though.
Mark50
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Post by Mark50 »

Ok then, thank you for the replies! Hopefully I haven`t delayed the game`s development with them. :D I wish you success with it! The more that comes out the better.
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Post by Casaubon »

Great stuff indeed, haven´t read about plans for allied campaigns in the other threads yet. Maybe there could be a japanese one also, this would be awesome.
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Post by flakfernrohr »

In regards to Finland, They used mainly captured Soviet equipment for tanks and what they could get out of the Germans, usually STugs, PzIV. I did a little research on these units as they existed in 1943 and 1944. I made some "skins" of Finnish camouflage and basic armor colors and the Insignia. I have requested a skinner to apply these to some of the German tanks and Soviet tanks. Generic Opel trucks and various German and Soviet artillery will suffice as well. I also made Finnish infantry in three or four configurations. Some were light infantry, some were on bicycles, some were sappers, etc. As before when I get these units, I will post a link on the forum for everyone to use them. The early war German infantry icons are very close in appearance to the Gray Finnish service uniforms and they used the same helmets.

The Finnish ski troops and snipers really damaged the Soviets tremendously, demoralized them actually and the infantry was very effective in Anti-Tank operations.

My reasons for doing this is because I am working on a Northern Russia Scenario (which may become a campaign) that involves the capitulation of Leningrad with Finland's help (theoretical) and I also have completed 22 maps that will become scenarios of the Russian Front AFTER a Kursk Victory (theoretically). So the Finnish (and some Hungarian, Romanian, and Italian troops) will participate in these scenarios.

I considered also making units for Bulgarian and Slovakian troops, but historically they were only kept in service near their home countries.
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
Mark50
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Post by Mark50 »

Alot of the equipment of countries like that is indeed made up of imports or built under license and those units do exist in game for other countries. For example Romania at the start of Barbarossa had such tanks as the french Renault R35 and the locally named R-2 which was the czech LT vz. 35 present in the german roster as the Panzer 35(t). And aircraft like the Hawker Hurricane, Me 109 E, PZL 23 Karas, PZL 11, He 111 and so on. So things like these could have been added with a minimum of paint-job in the first place. However there will be a problem when it comes to equipment that is missing from the game for countries that are regarded as complete. Like the polish PZL 37 Los, the dutch(and finnish) Fokker D.XXI, the french Bloch 210, the german He 112(also used by Romania btw) and others. If they haven`t been included so far it`s clear that the game`s developers will not bother with them in the future either and I sorta doubt that the standard of graphics that the orginal game` units display will be easy to match by other artists doing this as a hobby.
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Post by Mark50 »

I have a few more questions please.

1. Is there a way to kill/disband one of your units during a campaign mission? I seem to remember that in PG it was possible, but I can`t find such a button in PC.
EDIT: nevermind this one. I`ve found out via the manual that it`s a hotkey for this action.

2. Is it possible to play the missions of the DLCs separate of a campaign, like normal scenarios?

3. Are the auxiliary units of non german axis armies replaceable during a mission? For example, once the slovak infantry of the first campaign mission was destroyed I wanted to buy another and it said there were no available slots for this even though I had not bought any other unit.
Last edited by Mark50 on Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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