650AP

[ravenflight]

Hi All,

I've been bouncing around ideas for the 650AP event at CanCon and have a few thoughts which I'd be interested in feedback on.

I think the 650AP dramatically alters the game. There are some armies, for instance, that benefit greatly from an IC and others who benefit (naturally) but not in any way as much. I find that the Vikings (for example) are pretty much toast if they aren't backed up by an IC. Shooting armies will quickly disrupt the spear wall and then it's a VERY tough fight for the Vikings.

So, does the 650AP limit the field? Are all armies just as useful in 650AP as they are in 800AP?

Of course you can still TAKE an IC, but the impact on your overall points is more dramatic.

I also find that the 'left over' points are more disturbing. For example, if you build an army like the Anglo-Danes it can be quite difficult to use up your points and not be left with an annoying large number of points left over. Every point left over has a larger impact on your overall points used.

I'm not complaining about the 650 format. Not at all, just musing.

[philqw78]

(normally) Shooting has less of an effect at 650 points as it is played on shallower tables.

[hazelbark]

I think it is fair to say that point amounts do favor some armies versus others.
Some armies have high minimum and at 650 can't get there fun optional troops.
Some armies just aren't perfectly formed at 800.

As Phil alluded to the table size also matters.

A suggestion also of theming the event somewhat is always good.

[ravenflight]

A suggestion also of theming the event somewhat is always good.

Yes, I like the idea of themes, but it seems to be an Australian anathema.

[ravenflight]

(normally) Shooting has less of an effect at 650 points as it is played on shallower tables.

I don't understand this.

You get to shoot the same distance - generally 6" with bow. You get the same number of bounds of shooting before 'crunch' time.

Unless, of course, you mean skirmishing... which is different IMHO.

There are Shooting Armies. There are Melee armies. There are Skirmishing armies. And there are ones which combine some or all of those. Shooting Armies (Welsh, English etc) would be pretty much the same I would think.

[philqw78]

I meant skirmish shooting as most MF bow are dead men walking at any points level

[muz177]

The recent 650 point comp in Melbourne had a large proportion of pike based armies. This may be because this format has not been regularly run in Australia and pikes on a 5 x 3 ft table are hard to beat. So a good place to start may be figuring out ways to beat pikes - lots of terrain and armoured impact MF? Or maybe armoured heavy weapon MF like Chinese? Or superior armoured HF heavy weapon (expensive though).

Making good use of terrain will be important - looking forward to the comp.
Muz

[ravenflight]

Making good use of terrain will be important - looking forward to the comp.
Muz

Yes, Muz, but I think statistically you will have less terrain on the table.

For example, on a 6'x4' table if you get a 3 or a 4 on deployment dice it goes onto an edge which can usually harbour two such terrain features. On a 5'x3' table one terrain feature will nearly destroy any chance of another terrain feature on that edge. Doing the 'road/river/open space' shenanigans after picking 'agricultural' will be even MORE useful to people of the 'pike' variety AND there will be less +4 initiative players because LH are less effective and Inspirational generals are expensive pro-rata.

I'm looking forward to the comp, but I'm trying to work out what army I'm going to take based on your 'pike' scenario above. It does seem to be 'the way to go', but I always try to beat them without joining them... perhaps why I'm often in the middle of the pack.

[philqw78]

. Doing the 'road/river/open space' shenanigans after picking 'agricultural' will be even MORE useful to people of the 'pike' variety

We are doing a 650 in Manchester this weekend Hammy saw fit to amend the allowable terrain to 1 compulsory and 3 other. Which means no-one can have a road and a river and an open space I believe.

[grahambriggs]

The recent 650 point comp in Melbourne had a large proportion of pike based armies. This may be because this format has not been regularly run in Australia and pikes on a 5 x 3 ft table are hard to beat. So a good place to start may be figuring out ways to beat pikes - lots of terrain and armoured impact MF? Or maybe armoured heavy weapon MF like Chinese? Or superior armoured HF heavy weapon (expensive though).

Making good use of terrain will be important - looking forward to the comp.
Muz

Surprised that pikes dominated. Four deep they are quite expensive per frontage. IMHO best ways to beat them is to beat their support troops while keeping the pikes busy. If you must fight them frontally, armoured hoplites are good. (three deep; rear support and generals to ride out that impact)

[hazelbark]

Surprised that pikes dominated. Four deep they are quite expensive per frontage. IMHO best ways to beat them is to beat their support troops while keeping the pikes busy. If you must fight them frontally, armoured hoplites are good. (three deep; rear support and generals to ride out that impact)

Pikes are what 24 points a file
Armoured OS are 18 or 20 points a file. add either a genral or rear support and not more efficient point wise.

[ravenflight]

We are doing a 650 in Manchester this weekend Hammy saw fit to amend the allowable terrain to 1 compulsory and 3 other. Which means no-one can have a road and a river and an open space I believe.

I don't see why?

Agricultural
Compulsory = enclosed field
Option 1 = Road.
Option 2 = River.
Option 3 = Open space.

Just means you don't get TWO open spaces. It's still a mighty powerful way of getting a steppe in the middle or Italy or Greece.

[Robert241167]

I'm afraid I have to side with Phil.

A river or coast counts as 1 piece but as 2 selections.

Rob

[ravenflight]

I'm afraid I have to side with Phil.

A river or coast counts as 1 piece but as 2 selections.

Rob

Ahh - that's right. I'd have remembered the Coast, but I never use rivers, so didn't remember the river counting as two options.