Battle of Bornhoved (1227)?

ZeaBed · Post by **ZeaBed** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:17 am

Has anyone considered gaming this battle? A really bloody engagement between the Danes and the Germans. I haven't been able to find any full documentation yet, except for relatively brief descriptions such as this one:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Battle-o ... 2236235454

Schweinewitz · Post by **Schweinewitz** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:58 am

I've found a very brief description of the battle in Kurd von Schlözer's "Die Hansa und der deutsche Ritter-Orden" from 1851; unfortunately it provides no useful additional info. Will do some further research and let you kow in case I discover something.

ZeaBed · Post by **ZeaBed** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:51 pm

Thanks Schweinewitz. This could all be for future (?) reference, as there are no FoG armies available to represent Danish and German troops of this period. Also, I haven't been able to find any order of battle for this engagement, not even a troop count for either side. I hope you find some information on it, as it should be an exciting battle to game in FoG.

Schweinewitz · Post by **Schweinewitz** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:30 pm

The German Wikipedia entry about the battle is not bad at all and names several sources, among them the "Detmar-Chronik" (14th cent.) and the "Chronica Novella" of Hermann Korner (14th/15th cent.) as well as the legend of Alexander von Soltwedel, a local hero of Lübeck and participant of the battle. Detmar's description is reduced to essentials while Korner seems to fantasize a splendid battle, apparition of the Blessed Virgin included.

So the source material is problematic, but not as worse than in other cases. We should regard Wiki's statements about the OOB (Danish army ca. 14.000 men, that of the North German Coalition 10.000 to 11.000 men - plus 1000 renegades of Dithmarschen) with caution, but what choice do we have?

I'll take a closer look on those sources and post a short summary here afterwards.

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:30 pm

This sort of problem with lack of historical sources crops up quite often - I have had difficult finding detailed information about Condotta battles, for example. So what I do is to produce a scenario that I describe as "inspired by" the battle of whatever. The Northern Crusade battles of Lindanisa, St Matthew's Day and Schaulen would fall into that category. My own view is that it is perfectly OK to take this approach as long as you are quite open about it. I think "Oath of Fealty" might have the armies for this scenario - so it will be 6 months or so before they become available.

ZeaBed · Post by **ZeaBed** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:38 pm

I've played some D.A.G. battles featuring Milanese, Venetian and even Neapolitan condotta troops. These are really interesting confrontations, I've found! One of them, pitting the Milanese against the French was indeed a fine game to play. I hope FoG does get those 13th century units represented next year. Also it would be interesting to have Castilian and moorish troops from the 11th century, so the battle of Sagrajas and El Cid's campaigns could be gamed.