Compiling 1941 Feedback

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Kerensky
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Compiling 1941 Feedback

Post by Kerensky »

Yup, it's that time again!

I've been reading all of your threads and comments, and once again I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions to helping test our content. Several items have re-occured, and I'd like to address them all at once for everyone now.

1941 starting core is prestige heavy:
The way I see it, it's unavoidable that someone who brings a core along from campaign to campaign is going to have an advantage. They've designed their core just the way they like it, they've accumulated kills and heroes, and they may have even played an earlier DLC over and over again to really finish with an outstanding force.
To help offset this, and I've mentioned it a few times, the DLC are organized into a Tier System. Specifically to this issue of the starting core being very strong though, this is to help assist anyone who does want to jump right into the DLC campaigns instead of having played from the beginning.

If you could imagine your core. the sum total of all units, experience, prestige, heroes, everything could be quantified. Give it a Core Rating. At the end of DLC 1939, a person's Core Rating might be... let's say 50. At the end of DLC 1940, it'll be... 85. The starting Core of a new DLC, therefore, must be at least comparable to this Core Rating.

This is why DLC 1941 feels a little prestige heavy to start. Partly because of the Tier System(Each DLC starts relatively easy and gets harder, and then the difficulty resets for the next DLC) and partly because of Core Ratings.

Simply put, initial starting cores of all DLCs, current and future, will continue to be 'overstrengthed'.
As we have started to see from the late 1941 scenario reports though, people are starting to fight some thought battles, and prestige isn't quite so abundant. Actually it is abundant, just all those Soviets really take their toll. :)

Belgrade Cavalry Bug:
That situation with the Romanian Officers was an unfortunate bug, I apologize for it. I guess didn't catch it because how I think. I must have tested Belgrade several times, but it never occurred to me to ever bring two Officers to the city. "Why would I ever leave two units idle when the objective only asks for one?" This will definitely be fixed, no worries. It's the simplest fix too. lol

Difficult of the starting scenarios
Again, this is part of the Tier System. Initial scenarios typically are somewhat 'under-tuned' so to speak. While most if not all of us here are veteran players. we must consider that our average player is NOT as good as most of us.
Threads like:
viewtopic.php?t=29290
and
viewtopic.php?t=29282
are reminders of this.

So most likely, you guys should feel like 'well this content is kinda too easy and I have too much prestige', especially those of you playing on Colonel mode. So while you shouldn't stop saying the content is too easy, just keep in mind we have to cater to everyone and their respective abilities, not just the elite gamers. Besides, I hear comments about DLCs being easy, but I don't see many reports that mention they are played on Rommel or Manstein settings. ;)

Crete
The issue with this map... it's been done to death. I know there are at least 4 different user made 'Crete' maps floating around Panzer Corps already, not to mention the places it's already existed in other games! Thrusting the player directly into the action is something not really experimented with though (not to mention the choice of air or naval attack too) so accordingly we had to design it on the easy side. Imagine if you weren't able to handle being dropped directly on top of your enemy's positions? Your core would be decimated! That said, I might up the difficulty just a little bit for Crete, but also keep in mind its only the third scenario. You want hard, go for the bonus scenario Streets of Moscow and let me know how it goes. :D

StuG III
I'm very pleased to hear this unit, even though it's a mere 1 range artillery piece, is getting much affection. Might have to think about some adjustments to the StuG IV and StuH42 to further explore the potential of 1 range arty units! :)

Recon Cars
Recon is very important in the DLCs, we all know this by now. With so many enemy counter attacks, knowing where they come from and how strong they are as quickly as possible is vital. The problem is, these counter attacks tend to crush the first unit they see... the poor scout car that is serving as vanguard to your forces. I tried experimenting with improving the Ground Defense of recon cars, but that obviously didn't fix the issue. Some people complain that recon cars with high GD seems strange, and regardless of that, recons cars are still dying even with improved defenses.
This might be something that needs improving in the future, but for the moment, we may have to accept the reality that the life of a scout car is a dangerous one. But hey, at least we managed to convince people to add recon to their cores now. That's a plus! :D
Once we get to 1943 and the Soviet Air Force really becomes a threat, maybe we'll even have people use core slots for AD units! lol

Closing thoughts
We appreciate your feedback and input, and hope to see more of it in the coming days. I especially need more feedback on the late scenarios of DLC 1941. Dont feel rushed to get there, after all these DLC packs arent trivial campaigns like we see in other games. There is a LOT of content that takes a good amount of time to complete, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky »

Out of curiosity though, for anyone who took the 'Kiev' path.
Has anyone tried or been able to take Kiev before the third map?

It doesn't seem like anyone is trying (which is good, you're all following your objectives!) but taking Kiev early was deliberately made to be an extremely difficult task to accomplish. Even if you did manage to do it, you would probably take a lot of casualties for little benefit.

The same goes for Leningrad. Are people listening to their objectives and ignoring it? If anyone has tried to take all of Leningrad, tell me what happened.
monkspider
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Post by monkspider »

I briefly entertained ideas of trying to take Kiev on the first scenario but realized it was a bad idea and quickly bailed out. I think it would be possible though for a truly expert player though.

I do pretty much agree with all of your thoughts here. Even though I am probably public enemy number one for the Recon Car Driver's Union, I really do try to keep them alive. On the other hand, I don't really feel too sad when I lose them, since they are so cheap that it is usually pretty negligible to replace them. Still, a further solution that made them a bit more durable would be appreciated.

Also, you can definitely count me as a fan of the STUG now. :)

I agree that prestige is easy to come by early on, but by the end of Streets of Moscow, my prestige was basically completely depleted. I have to admit I feel a little guilty when I see the threads about people complaining about the lack of prestige on 1939-40 since I was one of the testers that advocated for lower prestige amounts. :(
nikivdd
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Post by nikivdd »

Kerensky wrote:Out of curiosity though, for anyone who took the 'Kiev' path.
Has anyone tried or been able to take Kiev before the third map?

It doesn't seem like anyone is trying (which is good, you're all following your objectives!) but taking Kiev early was deliberately made to be an extremely difficult task to accomplish. Even if you did manage to do it, you would probably take a lot of casualties for little benefit.

The same goes for Leningrad. Are people listening to their objectives and ignoring it? If anyone has tried to take all of Leningrad, tell me what happened.
I started the Kiev scenario on general level this evening, posted two screenies in my thread. Will finish the scenario tomorrow.
Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky »

monkspider wrote:I agree that prestige is easy to come by early on, but by the end of Streets of Moscow, my prestige was basically completely depleted. I have to admit I feel a little guilty when I see the threads about people complaining about the lack of prestige on 1939-40 since I was one of the testers that advocated for lower prestige amounts. :(
Yup, this is a concern. So while I did listen to you guys and reduced prestige values, I didn't lower them as much as was requested.

The bottom line, not all of our players are elite hardcore gamers like me or amazing prestige saving machines like impar. We have to make sure our wide player base also has a fun and engaging opportunity to explore all of the content as well. That means we have to be liberal with our prestige allotting on the default setting of the game. It also means we encourage our 'elite' players to try their hand at the expanded difficult levels, especially Rommel and Manstein. :)
Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut »

Where is/are or how do you get to "Rommel or Manstein" difficulty??
deducter
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Post by deducter »

Win Decisive USA West Coast on Field Marshall.

If you want access quickly, just use the cheat codes to get it.
Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut »

So, having done that would allow those levels in the Beta '41? Have made it through Minsk on General level at it has been challenging but possible, and I had almost 3000 prestige going into Smolensk. Unfortunately, had to switch laptops (original one is ill :cry: ) and I'll have to start back at Belgrade. I found Field Marshall was deadly when the counter-attacks happened around Belgrade!
deducter
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Post by deducter »

It should, just do it in the base game.

However, if you feel General is suitably challenging, Manstein is almost certainly going to be very hard.
Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky »

Blathergut wrote:So, having done that would allow those levels in the Beta '41?
Yep. Just be warned, Rommel will cut your prestige in half, and Manstein is pretty outrageous when you start having to fight 20 (twenty) strength units.
Longasc
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Post by Longasc »

1.) Will imported cores get less extra Prestige or no extra Prestige for the 41 campaign/Belgrade map?

Despite the tier argument and giving people a hand early on we still get by far too much Prestige.
It's not necessary as the imported 40 core armies and the really excellent (it's near perfect after all, even if people tend to have a bit more Stukas and Artillery) 41 starter core are doing well without that.


2.) Leningrad is too easy to take. The counter-attacks are well done but maybe the six super heavy artillery pieces should be switched to something like bunker construction teams or 10.5cm and even then... it's SIX extra artillery pieces and they have this super fast 8 hex halftrack on top of that.

-> How about changing that to 3 weaker artilleries and 3 Bridge Engineers or Pioniere named "Sturmpioniere" or something like that?


P.S. I think the "naval" Crete scenario needs some more feedback.
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Post by Tarrak »

I posted this already in my report thread but just in case it gets overlooked. I found a possible bug, well it is one the question is only where. :P I in first scenario i lost a Ju88. It wasn't shot down, i did not disband it but at the end of the scenario i only have one Ju88 the other is gone while the casualties statistic does not show it as loss. Now i doubt it but i could have had a brain outage and let it somewhere not at an airfield and it run out of fuel and crashed but even in that case should it not be listed under casualties then too? So either we have a random unit disappearing bug or at least a casualties list bug here.

I got screen shots and a save from the end of the game, sadly i forgot to save every turn to be able to analyze the problem in depth. I think creating a save game not only for last move but for all moves and storing it would be a good feature at least for the beta.
Longasc
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Post by Longasc »

Air units running out of fuel are not listed under casualties indeed.
Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky »

Oh by the way, I'm glad no one complained they wanted more Balkans content. :D

I was worried for a bit people wanted a full 10 scenario campaign to occupy all of Greece and the rest of the Balkans. :P
Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky »

Based on the great feedback, here's some upcoming changes and fixes for DLC 1941. New version with these changes should be out for testing sooner or later. :)
If there are any important bugs or changes you feel are not in this list but should be, please let me know. There are a lot of good threads around here, I may have missed something important.

Changelog:
Fixed Belgrade Cavalry victory condition
Added Yugoslavian BF-109D
Fixed graphics and tweaked AI for Metaxas Line
Dropped a German Aux unit from CreteAir, added a few more Allied Infantry
Added Italian Heavy Cruiser Trento and an Italian level bomber to CreteNaval
Added a few Russian units to Minsk in Minsk41 and added several german AUX AD units to help players who don’t capture a lot of Russian airfields before the enemy aircraft attack
Increased reward prestige slightly for final three scenarios (vyazma, streets of Moscow, Demyansk pocket)
Soviet Baltic fleet and additional fortifications now resides in Leningrad to deter occupation.
Reduced chance of Rain on Vyazma by 20% (50 down to 30)
Russian Air Defense units in Demyansk have been switched to active, removed 1 German quad AD
Removed “Potamus” from Metaxas
Increased per turn income for Demyansk Pocket map, increased base Soviet experience
Various text fixes
Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut »

When the new version comes out, do you want us to start back at Belgrade and work up through again, or just keep going from where we are?
Kerensky
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Post by Kerensky »

I would prefer people continue their campaigns. Most of the changes are only minor tweaks, and we need more late scenario feedback. :)
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