Hylan Valley with scvftw

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:42 am

Single digit prestige? Check. (lol 4)
Massive casualty list? Check. (gg German air superiority)
King Tigers spotted? Check.
Winning? You better believe it!

Full size image:
http://i.imgur.com/GFzKP.jpg

It's currently 8 British Victory hexes to 1 German Victory Hex.... although it's pretty obvious that isn't going to last for long.

I'm just trying to end with 5-4 on the Victory Hex count! Just need to stall for 12 turns.....

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:02 am

Same game, next turn, the situation in the South.
These uber armored Churchills are amazing.

Full size image:
http://i.imgur.com/UC12H.jpg

I lost a VH. It's now 7-2

scvftw · Post by **scvftw** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:39 am

Kerensky wrote:These uber armored Churchills are amazing.

yeah my tanks/jagdtiger are doing 1-2 dmg. my bombers don't do much cuz of constanty bad weather and the tigers are out of armo all the time...
in the north are never ending waves of infranty i just can't kill fast enough. i have about 6 artillery units +tanks but thats just enough to hold my ground.

If i get some sunny days i should be able to conquer ~3 VP and get a close win out of it:)

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:41 pm

Well that's part of the danger of a large air force. They can be completely neutralized by bad weather, and even more hampered by an abundance of air defense units. Even more then that, they tend to have a very low turn over rate. That is, they don't generally ever get killed.

Getting units killed is a function of success. If you don't need X unit, you can use it to:
Go on the offensive.
Consume enemy strength, ammunition, and time.
Replace it with a different unit you do need where you need it.

My forces have a horrible rate of attrition (17 inf and 14 tanks!) but as long as I keep enough prestige to replace my lost units, I am always able to replace my losses with units that better suit my needs.

I'm not on the offensive anymore? I'll 'kill off' my tanks instead of just disbanding them and fill that core slot with... an anti-tank or other defensive type unit.

So while unit preservation is absolutely paramount in a campaign setting... it can actually be a detriment for scenario play. This is one of the primary reasons it's almost impossible to make a campaign map that is also a good single play scenario. If you have too much prestige, but aren't getting anything done.... be riskier and more aggressive. Toss out some units that aren't effective to make room for others that are.

I especially recommend dropping a few air units to pick up some strong anti-soft units to combat my abundance of infantry. Artillery is great at this, but will do much MUCH better with a few Panzer IIINs (high soft attack) type units to supplement them.

deducter · Post by **deducter** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:52 pm

Hmm, the German player does not seem too fond of Wurfrahmen, which is the ultimate soft unit killer. When I played against rusikcanuk, he used something like 6-7+ wurfrahmen against me once my armor was exhausted taking VH. He'd cover them with each other, making it impossible for soft units to damage them, and on occasion I would send armor against an exposed one, but his heavy armor just chewed up my attackers. I was up I think 7 to 2 VH, or something like that, but he counterattacked quite readily and I ended up conceding DV to him. None of the infantry I got lasted more than 1 wurfrahmen + 2 heavy armor attacks, and if I grouped them it was worse, just a series of surrenders. Artillery does nothing against the German armor.

Then again, this was back in 1.02, when the heavy German armor was cheaper. Been too busy with SP right now.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:58 pm

You'll be happy to know the Wurfrahmen will get a price adjustment in the next patch.

And yes, the new SP release really seems to have everyone's attention! I can't say im complaining though.

People luv new content. What can I say?

scvftw · Post by **scvftw** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:04 am

Kerensky wrote:Well that's part of the danger of a large air force. They can be completely neutralized by bad weather, and even more hampered by an abundance of air defense units. Even more then that, they tend to have a very low turn over rate. That is, they don't generally ever get killed.

i think i overestimated the streng of air a bit. But u didn't build enough flak until the last turns, so my bomber would have been strong if it wouldn't rain/be cloudy all the time.
In the mirror match u had lots of flak from the beginning so i should have suicided my plains there early.

Getting units killed is a function of success. If you don't need X unit, you can use it to:
Go on the offensive.
Consume enemy strength, ammunition, and time.
Replace it with a different unit you do need where you need it.

My forces have a horrible rate of attrition (17 inf and 14 tanks!) but as long as I keep enough prestige to replace my lost units, I am always able to replace my losses with units that better suit my needs.

I'm not on the offensive anymore? I'll 'kill off' my tanks instead of just disbanding them and fill that core slot with... an anti-tank or other defensive type unit.

So while unit preservation is absolutely paramount in a campaign setting... it can actually be a detriment for scenario play. This is one of the primary reasons it's almost impossible to make a campaign map that is also a good single play scenario. If you have too much prestige, but aren't getting anything done.... be riskier and more aggressive. Toss out some units that aren't effective to make room for others that are.

I especially recommend dropping a few air units to pick up some strong anti-soft units to combat my abundance of infantry. Artillery is great at this, but will do much MUCH better with a few Panzer IIINs (high soft attack) type units to supplement them.

To get offensiv u need to kill more prestige every round then your opponent gets.
On HV thats 750 every round or a Churchill +one infantry....
so to make ground i have to kill more then that every round. my army is getting stronger and stronger but i should now kill ~1500 prestige or so every round to make ground. thats like 2 churchills + 2 infantry...good luck to me-_-

well 2 8-rads are sneaking by and u gonna have to spend some prestige to secure our towns. hope they gonna drain u.

i had some wurfrahmen but lost most of them. they have a good dmg output but lack range and armo. If ur opponent is smart he first attacks with tanks and drains your armo. on rainy days they do less dmg and the armo supply is pretty bad so they might end up shooting every second round on an infantry unit and even get a dmg penalty.
they are not bad but i think much stronger in the offensiv then in defence.

scvftw · Post by **scvftw** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:16 am

after turn 27. I am still behind but i should be able to get the top one just in time.

the 8rad that sneaked behind the uk lines captured one village, but a inf unit is on his way there that will block production.
on the buttom leftish are 2 tigers and one wurfrahmen, but it's pretty unlikely that they will make it to the vh in time.
the bottom right vh is still occupied by one infi unit but the tiger+arti should be able to handel it.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:27 am

Definitely a very interesting game, both of the paired games. Soon as we're done I'll post ending pics and comments.

BTW that King Tiger that with the flashing yellow ammo warning sign that reached Redrum City? KIA.

scvftw · Post by **scvftw** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:47 am

Kerensky wrote: BTW that King Tiger that with the flashing yellow ammo warning sign that reached Redrum City? KIA.

yeah when they are running out of ammo i just let them die and buy a brand new one. i get heavy volume discount on them...

next turn...

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:19 am

My German vs his British game complete.
Finally score, 7-2 my lead. Good Game. The really exciting other game is still in progress though!

Situation in the South:
I managed to take that Southwestern VH, but all my attempts to advance North were completely stalled by a combination of Artillery, Churchills, and 17 pound ATGs.

It was stalled so badly in the South, scvftw actually managed to launch a counter-offensive with his extra units towards Redrum city! Take note, there's my hero StuG with his Iron Cross there fighting.

Casualty report:

scvftw · Post by **scvftw** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:35 am

i didn't made a screenshot from the mirror game when we still had one big front.
i have on from 3 or 4 turns befor end.
my front just disintegrated.
on the turn befor i retoke the vh southeast, but couldn't hold he counterattack. the other part of my army is trying to get the vh in the middle but there is no way around the tiger. the at unit gets 0:7 on an attack.
in the north a had some infrantry running around but they couldn't to much vs the heavy armor there.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:35 am

Absolutely EPIC battle going on in the other game.

So a while ago, we had the British at 7 Victory Hexes to German 2. Well by on turn 28, it was 6 to 3. On turn 29, it was 5 to 4. Can he make continue the trend and make it 4 to 5 on Turn 30?

All that stands in his way are three Churchill Tanks. HOLD THE LINE MEN!

scvftw · Post by **scvftw** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:00 am

no way:(

i was hoping to surround the churchills and get them to surrender, but that somehow works better as brit.
prist get 2 suppresions on armored, but german arti just one. are there any mechanics i don't know?
the last turn wasn't even close.

GG:)

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:13 pm

Very good game!

The situation in the South, practically a ghost town.

But in the North, the mighty Churchill have stubbornly held their ground.

With just a little more time and a few more turns... you would have won. I stalled *just* long enough though. Just barely.
And it came at a HORRIBLE cost, but that's part of the fun! I lost more units of every single category except artillery.

Final core, after 30 turns of edge of your seat action:
British 5 Victory Hexes.
Germans 4 Victory Hexes.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:34 pm

If I learned anything from this latest game, it's that the British can put up a nightmarish defense now.
17 pound guns (had a price drop in 1.04), some mobile artillery Priests, and Churchill VIIs(also had a price drop in 1.04) are not easily or quickly overcome, even with Wurfrahmen, King Tigers, and Jagdpanthers.