the 2.01.33 patch is a mistake

[Morris]

I don't know how to express my feeling when I received the .33 patch . I wonder the patch which cost team so many time is only to defeat Morris or his strategy ? If so , please just advise me , I will declare surrender at once in the AAR with Supermax , in return to go back to the version 2.01.32 . There are really too many changes I believe are not necessary which regarding to increase difficulty to Allies . Especially about the convoy escort & item production price & Canada fighter location & sub oil ! & USA USSR tank lvl , etc .. I will show you what will happen after this in the coming AAR with Supermax (or withany other elite Allies player )which I will be the Axis . God bless my favorite GS !

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Why conclude before we've even tried a single game. Now you need to build a navy too with the Allies.

[rkr1958]

I don't know how to express my feeling when I received the .33 patch . I wonder the patch which cost team so many time is only to defeat Morris or his strategy ? If so , please just advise me , I will declare surrender at once in the AAR with Supermax , in return to go back to the version 2.01.32 . There are really too many changes I believe are not necessary which regarding to increase difficulty to Allies . Especially about the convoy escort & item production price & Canada fighter location & sub oil ! & USA USSR tank lvl , etc .. I will show you what will happen after this in the coming AAR with Supermax (or withany other elite Allies player )which I will be the Axis . God bless my favorite GS !

O.K. in a previous beta, in your opinion, we over tweaked game balance overwhelmingly in favor of the allies. And now, in your opinion, we've adjusted it overwhelmingly in favor of the axis. Would it be possible for you to articulate what you believe is the middle ground between these two extreme tweaks?

[supermax]

I don't know how to express my feeling when I received the .33 patch . I wonder the patch which cost team so many time is only to defeat Morris or his strategy ? If so , please just advise me , I will declare surrender at once in the AAR with Supermax , in return to go back to the version 2.01.32 . There are really too many changes I believe are not necessary which regarding to increase difficulty to Allies . Especially about the convoy escort & item production price & Canada fighter location & sub oil ! & USA USSR tank lvl , etc .. I will show you what will happen after this in the coming AAR with Supermax (or withany other elite Allies player )which I will be the Axis . God bless my favorite GS !

Moriss,

You should blame yourself for these changes. You are the one claiming and pushing on the game balance "issues"

And, frankly in my own honest opinion, all theses steriles discussions about game balance are getting very annoying because they are centered on you. At least you seem to think so.

I would not need a patch to beat you now. Your strategy has some very obvious flaws and i can now say with confidence that your overload ways are over with me. Patch or no patch.

If we play together one day and i play allies, i also intend to show you how its done.

But please stop talking about game imbalance i am getting very annoyed that most of the whining comes from you or his centered around your doing. No offense, but why dont we just PLAY the game...

[Morris]

I don't know how to express my feeling when I received the .33 patch . I wonder the patch which cost team so many time is only to defeat Morris or his strategy ? If so , please just advise me , I will declare surrender at once in the AAR with Supermax , in return to go back to the version 2.01.32 . There are really too many changes I believe are not necessary which regarding to increase difficulty to Allies . Especially about the convoy escort & item production price & Canada fighter location & sub oil ! & USA USSR tank lvl , etc .. I will show you what will happen after this in the coming AAR with Supermax (or withany other elite Allies player )which I will be the Axis . God bless my favorite GS !

Moriss,

You should blame yourself for these changes. You are the one claiming and pushing on the game balance "issues"

And, frankly in my own honest opinion, all theses steriles discussions about game balance are getting very annoying because they are centered on you. At least you seem to think so.

I would not need a patch to beat you now. Your strategy has some very obvious flaws and i can now say with confidence that your overload ways are over with me. Patch or no patch.

If we play together one day and i play allies, i also intend to show you how its done.

But please stop talking about game imbalance i am getting very annoyed that most of the whining comes from you or his centered around your doing. No offense, but why dont we just PLAY the game...

Max :
At first , we are not normal player , we are beta testers . It is our responsibility to reflect our opinion to the team to make this game perfect .
at second , I do agree you have got great achivement in our present AAR . You 've got maybe the largest advantage which Axis could ever make . But your manpower is around 600 & fuel around 100 , there are still around 140 INF steps need to supply ,also the GDP is much less then the total of Allies (160+ VS 250+ not including convoy ) , It is still more than two & half year to go . I believe this will be a close game in 1945 . Although you perform well done at the first half , it is still too early to say which side will be the winner .
Finally , I 'd like to halt our present AAR (since the patch of 2.01.33&.34) & start a new one . I prefer to play Axis to test the 2.01.33 changes . If you are not interested in playing with me , I wish you have good luck in the future .

It is my great pleasure to experience the pbem with you !

[Peter Stauffenberg]

People, I think we have to think about what is good game balance for GS.

I see that players complain because the Axis might have a hard time crushing the Russians and get to Omsk, succeed with Sealion, the Middle East or whatever. To me that's not the focus.

For me the game is well balanced if the Axis start to get problems late 1942, but can defend so well so they end up with losing Berlin in May 1945, i. e. the historical end date of WW2 in Europe.

In order for that to happen you will see Germany with manpower issues, oil issues and less production than the Allies.That is a requirement for Germany to crumble.

Our goal is to make sure they don't crumble too fast. Elite Axis players should be able to crush average Allied players, but if both players are at the same level then we should see the Germans struggle from 1942 and later.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

So I think we can't conclude that GS v2.01.33 is a failure even before we have tested it. We will monitor the games closely to check when initiative changes to the Allies and how fast Germany will crumble. If it's too slow or too fast then we can tweak something.

A big challenge we have is that we can't just look at the end result of a game to decide what to do. We have to look at how the players got to the end situation. Maybe one player did a huge mistake or didn't play as well as he should. If he then loses it's because of his strategy and not the game not being balanced.

It's very interesting to hear that Morris meant one month ago that in GS v2.01.30 the Axis had no chance winning the game. In GS v2.01.33 he means the Allies have no chance winning the game. So he obviously feels the chances we've just done are so big that the balance can change from one extreme to another extreme. I don't agree and hope playtesting will prove Morris wrong.

I think that what Morris should instead had said is that he feels he can not win with the Allies anymore using the strategy he's used to. That's actually good an our intention. So maybe Morris will have to make a competely different strategy with his Allies and then realize he can win with them. If he ignores naval research as he used to and won't built naval units then he got away with it before. Now the subs become even worse of a menace if he doesn't do anything about it. So a new strategy is needed. No more bleeding the Germans to death by suicidal Allied attacks. Maybe it's better to try to save the Russian army in 1941/1942 and use the Allies to nibble at poorly defended areas until 1943. I've not seen Morris investing in strategic bombers. Maybe now it's time to try to bomb the German production

[Morris]

you are quite right ! I will adjust my strategy when i play allies especially about Allies navy . I will try the new strategy . but I will show Axis has a little upper hand if you give me a chance to play Axis with you . May I have this hornor ?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I already have 5 games going and not room for more.

Now you claim the Axis have a little upper hand. That's a big difference from saying that the Allies have no chance and the update is a mistake. You may be right and that's why we beta test. So I propose you try to play with both sides and come back with your findings.

I'm sure we will have to make some more minor tweaking.

I'm actually encouraged if the tweaks we made would shift the balance maybe a bit over the center because then we know that the tweak we suggest can actually impact the game balance. If we get too far we can just reduce some of the tweaks we made to fine tune it.

That's much better than trying tweaks that don't seem to alter the balance at all.

It's like trying to setup a Formula 1 car and you drive it and feel the balance is not good. You go back to the pit and try some different settings and go out. If you can feel the response of the changes you can actually end up with a good setting even though the changes you made actually didn't make the car more balanced than before. As long as it was different you know in which direction each setting will send you. E. g. you switched from understeer in a corner to oversteer. Then you know you need to reduce the tweak you did to get balance there.

So we're actually working similar to a Formula 1 practise session before qualifying and race.

[Morris]

I already have 5 games going and not room for more.

Now you claim the Axis have a little upper hand. That's a big difference from saying that the Allies have no chance and the update is a mistake. You may be right and that's why we beta test. So I propose you try to play with both sides and come back with your findings.

I'm sure we will have to make some more minor tweaking.

I'm actually encouraged if the tweaks we made would shift the balance maybe a bit over the center because then we know that the tweak we suggest can actually impact the game balance. If we get too far we can just reduce some of the tweaks we made to fine tune it.

That's much better than trying tweaks that don't seem to alter the balance at all.

It's like trying to setup a Formula 1 car and you drive it and feel the balance is not good. You go back to the pit and try some different settings and go out. If you can feel the response of the changes you can actually end up with a good setting even though the changes you made actually didn't make the car more balanced than before. As long as it was different you know in which direction each setting will send you. E. g. you switched from understeer in a corner to oversteer. Then you know you need to reduce the tweak you did to get balance there.

So we're actually working similar to a Formula 1 practise session before qualifying and race.

Thanks for your lesson ! It seems you always have no room for me since I have been waiting for my turn from May . I will keep waiting for your room .