Intercept Charges

[titanu]

In the picture ignore the two units half to the left.

The two units at the top with sand coloured bases are oposed by the three units with dark bases. The sand colour with red sholders has charged the unit to its front, a kinked column (only a couple of mm away).
The sand coloured unit with blue shoulders has charged the column in the middle facing up the pictures.
The dark base yellow shield unit ( not the subject of any charge) intercepts the blue shoulders thus stopping their charge. The streight column facing up the picture intercepts the other charge. But my opponnent says they cannot because they were the subject of a charge (subsequently calcelled by the first interception.
Who is correct?

[philqw78]

If a charge is cancelled it is cancelled and nobody reacts to it, otherwise BG would have to evade from cancelled charges

[nikgaukroger]

If a charge is cancelled it is cancelled and nobody reacts to it, otherwise BG would have to evade from cancelled charges

Looking at the picture I think that the charge in question is not cancelled - that would mean it was intercepted by a flank/rear charge - it just doesn't reach the originally intended target.

[philqw78]

Why is it not cancelled when flank/rear intercepts cancel charges

[hazelbark]

If a charge is cancelled it is cancelled and nobody reacts to it, otherwise BG would have to evade from cancelled charges

Looking at the picture I think that the charge in question is not cancelled - that would mean it was intercepted by a flank/rear charge - it just doesn't reach the originally intended target.

Nik I think you need to expound with detail.

The upper left charging unit has its charge blocked by an intercept. Not cancelled it. The rules seem rather explicit here.

A battle group that is itself charged cannot intercept.

Contact the flank or rear of the enemy battle group. ... It cancels the enemy battle group’s charge completely

[imanfasil]

I think from the picture I agree with Nik. The outer most charge is NOT a flank charge so it doesn't cancel the charge declared on the would-be-flank-charging-interceptor it only gets in its way and prevents it from making contact. (There is clearly not a full base behind the front line of the charging unit)

You can only make contact with an intercept charge if the contact is to the flank or rear AND the interceptor is in position to make a legal flank/rear charge on the charger - That is not the case here. This contact would be with the chargers front corner... not legal, and they are not in position to make a flank charge so not legal twice.

All the interceptor can do is move forward to interpose itself. hard to tell from the angle if that is possible or not... it looks close. Either way the initial charge is uncancelled so the middle defender cannot intercept the first charger as it has been declared the target of a charge.

[philqw78]

Well if the charge is not cancelled it is a target, even if someone gets in the way

[hazelbark]

I think we are all saying the say thing
"The streight column facing up the picture" does not move in this phase.
It is the target of a charge that is not cancelled and therefore cannot intercept.

[imanfasil]

Agreed. Looking at the picture I think that no interception is possible at all. The leftmost bottom unit is outside of the charge path. I don't think it can get between the charger and its intended target. (Note - it cannot make contact with the charger) It needed to be in a legal flank position or at a more similar angle to target units...so it could move in front of it to take the charge.

[titanu]

Agreed. Looking at the picture I think that no interception is possible at all. The leftmost bottom unit is outside of the charge path. I don't think it can get between the charger and its intended target. (Note - it cannot make contact with the charger) It needed to be in a legal flank position or at a more similar angle to target units...so it could move in front of it to take the charge.

It can I set it up so it can just get it's front corner infront of the charge.

[titanu]

If a charge is cancelled....

Perhaps I did not qualify the point correctly. My opponats case was that charges are NEVER cancelled and hence the centre coulmn IS the target of a charge and hence cannot intercept. The point being that charges are only stopped from moving to contact when an interceptor contacts them in the flank or gets in the way. At the point of declaring the intercept this has not happened and hence that intercept cannot be made as it is still the target of a charge. I hope this clarifys the point.

[philqw78]

But charges are cancelled by intercepts into flank or rear, it says so in the rules. They are not cancelled by other intercepts, but must move to contact the intercepter

[imanfasil]

If a charge is cancelled....

Perhaps I did not qualify the point correctly. My opponats case was that charges are NEVER cancelled and hence the centre coulmn IS the target of a charge and hence cannot intercept. The point being that charges are only stopped from moving to contact when an interceptor contacts them in the flank or gets in the way. At the point of declaring the intercept this has not happened and hence that intercept cannot be made as it is still the target of a charge. I hope this clarifys the point.

If the intercepter was in a legal flank charge position and contacted your unit in the flank - its charge would have been cancelled. Allowing his center unit to intercept as well.

[rogerg]

I'll throw in my opinion too Bob. A BG that is the target of a charge cannot intercept. The fact that the chargers don't eventually reach that BG doesn't imply that it is not a target, rather it is a missed target. Even missed targets cannot intercept.

[zoltan]

It can I set it up so it can just get it's front corner infront of the charge.

Are you saying that when the yellow shields move their max intercept move of 2 MU forward they will reach a position which is in the path of the blue shoulder chargers?

[nikgaukroger]

My opponats case was that charges are NEVER cancelled

Let me guess, your opponent was Ruddock ...

[petedalby]

From what I can see you did it correctly.

The yellow interceptor moves forward up to 2MU in an attempt to get between the blue charger and their intended target.

Looking at the distances involved, this would still appear to allow the blue charger to wheel to contact both the yellow interceptor and its declared target.

So the blue charge is not cancelled and IMO the middle unit (the one being charged by the blue shoulders) may not intercept as it is still the target of a charge.

Your scenario does highlight a wrinkle in the current intercept rules. Where the interceptor is on the flank, but is not in a legal flank charge position, it may not be able to get in the way to effectively intercept the charger.

Inevitably others will disagree

[nikgaukroger]

I'll throw in my opinion too Bob. A BG that is the target of a charge cannot intercept. The fact that the chargers don't eventually reach that BG doesn't imply that it is not a target, rather it is a missed target. Even missed targets cannot intercept.

I think that sums it up nicely.

[titanu]

My opponats case was that charges are NEVER cancelled

Let me guess, your opponent was Ruddock ...

Nik you have it exactly!!

[grahambriggs]

Let me see...

We have two dullards using boutique Roman armies trying to out cheese each other. No doubt for an upcoming competition.

One weasels an advantage, forgetting that his opponent will charge the flank next bound anyway.

Ruddock is bound to get a rule right eventually, since he throws out interpretations like confetti.