lol Manstein :(

[Kerensky]

To me, this is why experience and overstrength are so important.

A unit that survives by 1 strength is a world of difference compared to a unit that is killed.
I mean, a unit with 3 excellent leaders is important to preserve, and packing as much extra overstrength on to that unit as possible is the only way to protect it against the very rare but ultimately inevitable 'bad luck'.

RIP little scout car, if only you were an 11 and not a 10.

[Longasc]

Scout Car vs Cavalry could be a great Panzer Corps spin-off.

A salute to all brave scout cars infiltrating enemy lines, taking objectives and attacking artillery from the rear ... and getting killed in the process.
I am always happy when a recon unit survives a campaign.

Cavalry is damn effective in the early years.

[impar]

Thats on Manstein difficulty level (15-strength enemy units), on the other difficulty levels (10-strength enemy units) experience isnt really needed. The overstrength might come handy too on the Guderian level, so as not to waste turns reinforcing.

There is an advantage to the player if he hasnt invested much prestige in a unit. The player can just disband an unit between scenarios and get a better one. Not having to keep units inside a certain family can be a advantage.
Pratical examples:
- disband the initial 10.5cm with truck (Poland) reaching Norway to get a 10,5cm with halftrack or a Sturmpanzer.
- disband He111 or Ju88 for the Do217, then disband Do217 for He177.
- disband Me109G for the Fw190A, then disband Fw190 for jets\rockets\...
- disband PzIIC in Norway for PzIB, disband PzIB in LC for PzIVD, disband PzIV for Tiger\Panther (or use the PzIII for as long as you like and then disband and upgrade to IV or Tiger or Panther).

Tried this approach in Rommel and now cant go back. Experience should matter more.

[Fimconte]

Especially since that 1-2 stars comes so quickly later in the war (because you're blasting away poor Conscripts left and right).

[Kerensky]

Thats on Manstein difficulty level (15-strength enemy units), on the other difficulty levels (10-strength enemy units) experience isnt really needed. The overstrength might come handy too on the Guderian level, so as not to waste turns reinforcing.

There is an advantage to the player if he hasnt invested much prestige in a unit. The player can just disband an unit between scenarios and get a better one. Not having to keep units inside a certain family can be a advantage.
Pratical examples:
- disband the initial 10.5cm with truck (Poland) reaching Norway to get a 10,5cm with halftrack or a Sturmpanzer.
- disband He111 or Ju88 for the Do217, then disband Do217 for He177.
- disband Me109G for the Fw190A, then disband Fw190 for jets\rockets\...
- disband PzIIC in Norway for PzIB, disband PzIB in LC for PzIVD, disband PzIV for Tiger\Panther (or use the PzIII for as long as you like and then disband and upgrade to IV or Tiger or Panther).

Tried this approach in Rommel and now cant go back. Experience should matter more.

I don't see why that means experience should matter more. If anything, that convinces me experience is perfect. If experience mattered more, such an unorthodox approach to the game would no longer be viable, people would do everything they can to preserve experience as much as possible if it was all powerful.

Your system might work, but that doesn't mean it's the best and only solution. For example, you lose out on acquiring medals. More tangibly, you lose out on hero accumulation, which can be extremely powerful with a few well placed +3 attack, +1 move, and +1 range heroes. Not only that, I have a distinct feeling that your strategy will fail on the hardest setting of the game, Manstein. Experience is a life saving stat. Units that shoot first and hit harder when they shoot take reduced damage in return. When you're dealing with an enemy that has 50% base strength increase over your own, you're going to want every advantage you can get to minimize your own losses, or else you end up with the screenshot that started this thread.

The bottom line is this: why should experience be all important and all powerful?
This was a huge problem of previous incarnations of Panzer Corps, where experience completely ran away and it was trivial to have an entire core of 5 star 15 strength units.
What's wrong with allowing other creative strategies, such as the one you came up with, to be viable?

[edahl1980]

Has anyone gotten a decisive on Manstein in Poland?

[Kerensky]

Has anyone gotten a decisive on Manstein in Poland?

Of course.
If you don't get that DV in Poland and get the extra 'bonus' mission of Norway, Low Countries will crush you and any hope of finishing off Britain in 1940.

Sure there's Sealion 42, but we all know how much worse Sealion 42 is compared to Sealion, and that is magnified with Sealion 42 Manstein. 15 strength British Battleships and Cruisers can potentially destroy a core unit in naval transport with a single shot.

[impar]

Several points...

I don't see why that means experience should matter more.

Should matter more in the sense that the prestige spent in elite reinforcements should bring better benefits.

For example, you lose out on acquiring medals. More tangibly, you lose out on hero accumulation, which can be extremely powerful with a few well placed +3 attack, +1 move, and +1 range heroes.

Well, medals are nice but dont help in battle. The increased stats from heroes are useful, but having a better unit (out of the good family) can also bring better stats. A +3Attack Hero on a He111 or a no-hero Do217?

Not only that, I have a distinct feeling that your strategy will fail on the hardest setting of the game, Manstein.

Manstein and Guderian. Mentioned that in the first post.
The thing with Masntein is, is experience needed because it offers sufficient battle benefits or because it allows for 11+ strength units?
Back to your initial post, would experience help the recon unit or would a 11 strenght help more?

The bottom line is this: why should experience be all important and all powerful?
This was a huge problem of previous incarnations of Panzer Corps, where experience completely ran away and it was trivial to have an entire core of 5 star 15 strength units.

And PzC solved the "5 star 15 strength units" with the decreased experience gathering rate.

What's wrong with allowing other creative strategies, such as the one you came up with, to be viable?

Its one of those things that after being seen cant be unseen. I now have a hard time pressing the elite reinforcement button.

[Kerensky]

I would say yes, experience IS needed because it offers both battle benefits and increased survivability, something that is paramount to have in campaign play.
Even if you are disbanding and rebuying units, you're still working with the same increased survivability principle, you're just recycling your prestige, so to speak. When a unit is killed in combat, its value is completely lost. A 1 strength units disbanded for prestige is worth as much as a 10 strength unit of the same type. (For the obvious reason that its free to replace a unit back to 10 strength during the deploy phase)

I think you're right. I also have an extraordinarily hard time pressing the elite reinforcement button. When I play multiplayer, it might as well not exist. When I am mid scenario during a campaign, it might as well not exist there either. But because I do save prestige as best I can with only regular replacements during scenarios, I use my savings to ALWAYS reach for the elite replacement button during the deployment phase.

But I don't see that's a problem. If I never ever reach for the elite button, even when I have a mountain of prestige saved up and it's the deploy phase 'discount' period, then we have a problem. That is not the case though, especially on the hardest campaign settings available.

So... sure min/maxing isn't a requirement of normal play. Why should it be? We're more then happy to allow people to play the way they want and have fun with the game. Some people like to recycle prestige by disbanding instead of upgrading. Some people like to have very large cores with a significant sized reserve on top of it. Some people only ever reach for the elite replacement button. All of these are completely valid styles of play, none of them are 'wrong'.

[impar]

... you're just recycling your prestige, so to speak.

Yep.

All of these are completely valid styles of play, none of them are 'wrong'.

You are a diplomat. :hatsoff: