Restricted zone - possible cheese

[hammy]

In my game yesterday we had a situation where two BG's of 4 ghilmen in single rank were being faced by two BG's of elephants. The elephants were almost lined up with one of the BG's of ghilmen but about 10mm of the front of the second group was infront of the elephants.

This meant that while the second BG got to shoot with more bases it was in the restricted zone. Effectively a 4 wide BG was hamstrung because 10mm of it's frontage was infront of my elephants.

I tried to see if there was an option to advance and line up as a battleline so that the second BG of ghilmen would slide out of the restricted area but there isn't.

Over all it felt a bit odd.

For the record the ghilmen shot the elephants fragmented then charged and the elephants broke

Hammy

[rogerg]

I would suggest that this is the sort of situation that one learns to avoid through experience. Attempting to change the rules to cater for these 'boundary effects' just makes them more complicated, harder to learn and consequently more difficult to get the experience necessary to avoid the problems. This is reminiscent of DBM 'crossing the front'. Those rules changed many times. Each change resulted in a new situation where there was a new ploy to learn to get an element corner a couple of millimetres into a gap.

Roger's Law of Cheese: If a rule specifies a distance or boundary, there will always be a situation at that boundary where an exploitable position is created.

[hammy]

I would suggest that this is the sort of situation that one learns to avoid through experience. Attempting to change the rules to cater for these 'boundary effects' just makes them more complicated, harder to learn and consequently more difficult to get the experience necessary to avoid the problems. This is reminiscent of DBM 'crossing the front'. Those rules changed many times. Each change resulted in a new situation where there was a new ploy to learn to get an element corner a couple of millimetres into a gap.

Roger's Law of Cheese: If a rule specifies a distance or boundary, there will always be a situation at that boundary where an exploitable position is created.

True but it just felt rather odd that there was essentially nothing the ghilmen could do. Had the ghilmen been javelin armed cavalry instead they would have been in big trouble but presumably they wouldn't have been there after all.

[shall]

For the record the ghilmen shot the elephants fragmented then charged and the elephants broke


So the restricted area didn't do them much good then.....

Si

[hammy]

For the record the ghilmen shot the elephants fragmented then charged and the elephants broke


So the restricted area didn't do them much good then.....

Si

Well it stopped the ghilmen from moving off to threaten another part of my army and had I charged the ghilmen with the elephant rather than tried to be clever then they wouldn't have shot me and I wouldn't have become disrupted but.....

I am thinking more about pinning two enemy BG's with one for a gain elsewhere on the battlefield.

Roger's comment that there has to be a boundary somewere is something I don't disagree with but the fact that there was nothing the ghilmen could do to get out of the restriction was where things felt a bit odd. I could imagine one BG of ghilmen moving off leaving the other to keep an eye on the elephants.

Hammy

[rbodleyscott]

the fact that there was nothing the ghilmen could do to get out of the restriction was where things felt a bit odd.

Not really true.

They could turn 180 degrees one turn, then move away the next. If the elephants charge they can evade.

[lawrenceg]

Well it stopped the ghilmen from moving off to threaten another part of my army and had I charged the ghilmen with the elephant rather than tried to be clever then they wouldn't have shot me and I wouldn't have become disrupted but.....

I am thinking more about pinning two enemy BG's with one for a gain elsewhere on the battlefield.

Roger's comment that there has to be a boundary somewere is something I don't disagree with but the fact that there was nothing the ghilmen could do to get out of the restriction was where things felt a bit odd. I could imagine one BG of ghilmen moving off leaving the other to keep an eye on the elephants.

Hammy

Couldn't you have turned one of the Ghilman BG 180, then moved away next turn?

[shall]

Well it stopped the ghilmen from moving off to threaten another part of my army and had I charged the ghilmen with the elephant rather than tried to be clever then they wouldn't have shot me and I wouldn't have become disrupted but.....

I am thinking more about pinning two enemy BG's with one for a gain elsewhere on the battlefield.

Roger's comment that there has to be a boundary somewere is something I don't disagree with but the fact that there was nothing the ghilmen could do to get out of the restriction was where things felt a bit odd. I could imagine one BG of ghilmen moving off leaving the other to keep an eye on the elephants.

I am pretty comfortable with them having to fight their way out to be honest. It is another one where thinking of a BG ratehr than a unit helps. The BG of elephants is in fact perhaps 4-6 "units". If the overlapping bit of Ghilam in the restricted area tried to move and escape I would expcet the eklephnat unit opposite it - being only a bit of the frontag of the BG - top run them over in the process or their trying.

An aide memoire I always think is to cut each base into 10mm forntage adn think about these as elements in DBM.

Si

[hammy]

the fact that there was nothing the ghilmen could do to get out of the restriction was where things felt a bit odd.

Not really true.

They could turn 180 degrees one turn, then move away the next. If the elephants charge they can evade.

Granted cavalry could do this but knights can't. It means that you can get significant benefit by sliding a BG slightly sideways.

Overall it is something where a good player can gain an advantage but it is one partly through geometry and milimetrics.