Salpa line

Schnurri · Post by **Schnurri** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:09 pm

Does anyone else think we should strengthen Finnish defenses with placement of a fort or 2 on the eastern border? I generally lose Finland early on without a huge German commitment whereas the Russians never got very far against the Finns. Seems this border was fortified more heavily than the Karelia Peninsula. Input from Finns?

Salpa Line

The Salpa Line (Finnish: Salpalinja, literally Bolt-line), or its official name, Suomen Salpa (Finland's Bolt), is a bunker line on the eastern border of Finland. It was built during the Interim Peace between the Winter War and the Continuation War to defend Finland against a possible Soviet invasion. The line is 1200 km long, stretching from the Gulf of Finland to Petsamo in northern Finland (now Pechenga, Russia). It never saw military action because the Soviet offensive in 1944 was stopped at the VKT-line on the Karelian Isthmus. Fortifications on the Salpa Line were much stronger than Mannerheim Line.[1]

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:16 pm

yes..strengthen

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:27 pm

What some games do is to let the Finns perform better when inside their own core territory. We could e. g. allow Finnish units to get +1 quality, +1 ground defense and +1 survivability when fighting within a core Finnish hex. That means they would stand up better against Russian units while the same German units would not.

I'm a bit sceptical to adding a long line of fortresses although I see the need for the finns to be boosted while inside Finland, but not outside of Finland. Is my suggestion a possible solution?

The southern part of the Salpa line is already on the map as a fortres. The Mannerheim line is not represented because it was part of the Karelian area ceded to Russia.

Plaid · Post by **Plaid** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:08 pm

No any kind of stat boost will save finland from well-organised soviet attack (guardsmen units, bombers, tanks etc) even in 1942 winter.
But isnt it real?

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:25 pm

The Finns were masters in defense in Finland because they knew their territory so well. You saw that during the Finnish / Soviet winter war and even later. The Finns weren't as skilled on Russian territory, partly because they lacked the motivation to fight a war of aggression. Liberating lost territory was one thing, but taking territory that had always been Russian was something else for the Finns.

JimR · Post by **JimR** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:07 am

Stauffenberg's idea is worth a try.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:11 am

I vote yes on Borger's idea. The Finns soundly whipped the Russians in the 1939/1940 Russian-Finnish war with significantly fewer men and equipment. The Finnish infantry and their tactics were superb and I would dare say on par with the Germans. Finland saw Barbarossa as a way to get back territory they lost to Russia and, in my opinion, should not be vulnerable to Russia until they have the Germans on the run. In fact, the USA never declared war on Finland though the US did pressure Finland to accept the Soviet armistice in 1944.

pk867 · Post by **pk867** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:30 am

Let's try Borger's suggestion.

zechi · Post by **zechi** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:24 am

I think even with the bonuses it will be hard to save Finland from the Soviets, if the Allied player goes for an early Finnish take out. Nevertheless, it could be worth a try.

PionUrpo · Post by **PionUrpo** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:38 am

Hamina-Luumäki (roughly where the current fort is) area was the best part of the Salpaline AFAIK. Due to the way CEAW handles forts(unreducable and units don't retreat), I wouldn't add more. They'd make fighting very hard due to limited hexes. If there were different level forts then some could be added north of Saimaa, but since there aren't, I think Borger's idea is worth as shot if this is problem (although I doubt it'll change that much, just another statboost after all).

Also, adding more forts would likely lead in purely defensive strategy instead of a drive to Karelia and Svir river to have a "bufferzone"(not just a buffer btw, we did have nationalistic "reasons" for it too but that's besides the point). If there's no buffer then Joensuu falls after some fighting, I don't see problem in that.

Against how large force you usually lose Finland btw? IF Sovs go for an overwhelming force it should be somewhat costly for them but they'd still break through within a reasonable timeframe. It's not like we had enough manpower to stop them forever. Balancing the Allied player's decision between "is it worth it to knock Finns out?" and "should I go for German units instead?" is hard no matter what we change.

I've actually seen part of the line while I was serving my six month conscription. Not quite so awesome anymore since most is dismantled but everyone does say they were quite heavy duty back in the day. Since they never saw fighting, who knows for sure but apparently Soviets thought quite highly of them or so I'm told.(And so it says in the web sources too actually

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