I figure this might be useful information for the general forum users once this bad boy is released.
Warsaw: Polish artillery
Dunkirk: Matilda II (De Panne)
Sedan: Souma (Margul)
Reims: Char B1 (Soupes)
Dijon: Char B1 (Moulins)
I am not sure which of the cities gives the permanent Polish artillery, maybe just the first one that you capture is permanent? Anyone know of any others that I am missing?
Capturable Unit Database (SPOILERS)
Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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Capturable Unit Database (SPOILERS)
Last edited by monkspider on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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El_Condoro
- Panzer Corps Moderator
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
In my opinion the units you can capture during the missions in France is already much more what a player could hope for.Kerensky wrote:You can post them here, but remember they're just requests, there are no promises.
You should see my lists of requests I've made for the rest of the team, I don't get 90% of the things I want. lol
In the end, we make do the best we can with whatever we have.
A T-34 during the Russian counter-attack in the winter of 1941-1942 would be nice
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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I agree, I was earnestly hoping for possibly a Char B1 but not only do we get TWO Chars, but we also get a Souma? You, Kerensky, my dear sir, are a saint.nikivdd wrote:In my opinion the units you can capture during the missions in France is already much more what a player could hope for.Kerensky wrote:You can post them here, but remember they're just requests, there are no promises.
You should see my lists of requests I've made for the rest of the team, I don't get 90% of the things I want. lol
In the end, we make do the best we can with whatever we have.
A T-34 during the Russian counter-attack in the winter of 1941-1942 would be nice
As for Soviet units, the T-34 (hopefully in German colors!) is an obvious choice. And of course, the Germans did historically utilize fairly significant numbers of captured T-34s so it would be accurate to hope for one or two of them.
The other unit that really comes to mind would be the ever-hated "Stalin's Organ Pipes", the infamous Katyusha. That would be quite cool to have, especially since there are no German units that are truly comparable (at least, I don't really consider the Nebelwerfers to be that similar).
I actually haven't found much historical reference in the way of captured Katyushas. Most of my references point out the abundance of Soviet armor and anti-tank guns being captured and re-used (T34s, KV1s, SU assault guns, and 76mm ATG guns being reused for things like Marders).
Katyushas might still be feasible as a candidate for potentially being a 'captured' units, but I would need to see some very good references on their capture and re-use.
As a note of intentions on captured units:
They should be rare, but useful. Artillery is somewhat special purpose in the new campaign designs, its use is not as prevalent as the base campaigns where combat consistently involves heavy fighting around entrenched victory hexes.
We all know the current campaign of Panzer Corps heavily favors abundance of artillery and strategic bombers, while the DLC campaigns are more geared towards large amounts of tank and tactical bombers.
So artillery, except in special circumstances, is generally frowned upon as candidates. Obviously Warsaw is special because of it's radical design nature, so bonus artillery is very suitable here.
They should fill in roles that the German player may otherwise not be able to fill. The Char B and Matilda II are fantastic candidates because of their incredible ground defense values, there simply is no German tank equivalent to match them until the Tiger shows up anyways, but that is very far off. The KV1 should also provide an excellent candidate along these lines, again having a much higher ground defense value than contemporary German tanks.
The T34/40 and T34/41 isnt quite so special, but it is historically extremely common to have them captured and re-used, so this gives them pretty much a free pass. As it is, the new stats on the T34/41 (you guys dont have them yet SPOILER) make it quite a formidable piece of machinery.
So because we are limited in requesting captured units (It is not reasonable to expect every single Russian unit will be recolored for availability as a German 'captured' unit) we have to be very attentive to not only historical implications of captured units (You wont ever get to capture an IS-2, at least I dont think you will), but also to game play implications as well. So iconic as the Katyusha is, does it really fit into everything I said above?
I see the Wurfrahmen 40 and it's availability date and the only advantage the Katty has is higher ammunition. (worse attack, wheel movement compared to tracked)
So convince us, how is the Katyusha a good candidate?
Katyushas might still be feasible as a candidate for potentially being a 'captured' units, but I would need to see some very good references on their capture and re-use.
As a note of intentions on captured units:
They should be rare, but useful. Artillery is somewhat special purpose in the new campaign designs, its use is not as prevalent as the base campaigns where combat consistently involves heavy fighting around entrenched victory hexes.
We all know the current campaign of Panzer Corps heavily favors abundance of artillery and strategic bombers, while the DLC campaigns are more geared towards large amounts of tank and tactical bombers.
So artillery, except in special circumstances, is generally frowned upon as candidates. Obviously Warsaw is special because of it's radical design nature, so bonus artillery is very suitable here.
They should fill in roles that the German player may otherwise not be able to fill. The Char B and Matilda II are fantastic candidates because of their incredible ground defense values, there simply is no German tank equivalent to match them until the Tiger shows up anyways, but that is very far off. The KV1 should also provide an excellent candidate along these lines, again having a much higher ground defense value than contemporary German tanks.
The T34/40 and T34/41 isnt quite so special, but it is historically extremely common to have them captured and re-used, so this gives them pretty much a free pass. As it is, the new stats on the T34/41 (you guys dont have them yet SPOILER) make it quite a formidable piece of machinery.
So because we are limited in requesting captured units (It is not reasonable to expect every single Russian unit will be recolored for availability as a German 'captured' unit) we have to be very attentive to not only historical implications of captured units (You wont ever get to capture an IS-2, at least I dont think you will), but also to game play implications as well. So iconic as the Katyusha is, does it really fit into everything I said above?
I see the Wurfrahmen 40 and it's availability date and the only advantage the Katty has is higher ammunition. (worse attack, wheel movement compared to tracked)
So convince us, how is the Katyusha a good candidate?
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deadtorius
- Field Marshal - Me 410A
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I 'm not requesting the Katyusa because it is a too fragile unit. It needs to be well protected. I prefer the self-propelled artillery unit that at least can take a pound or two. Not the artillery mounted on a truck.Kerensky wrote:
So convince us, how is the Katyusha a good candidate?
Sofar the focus has been put on ground units, why not air units?
The captured units from the western campaign are good but only till Barbarossa. The first part of the Russian campaign is about speed and how can my units push forward and encircle fast with a core including Mathila II's and CharB1's...
Well they're extra and don't count against your core, so I don't see what the complaint is.nikivdd wrote:I 'm not requesting the Katyusa because it is a too fragile unit. It needs to be well protected. I prefer the self-propelled artillery unit that at least can take a pound or two. Not the artillery mounted on a truck.Kerensky wrote:
So convince us, how is the Katyusha a good candidate?
Sofar the focus has been put on ground units, why not air units?
The captured units from the western campaign are good but only till Barbarossa. The first part of the Russian campaign is about speed and how can my units push forward and encircle fast with a core including Mathila II's and CharB1's...
Don't take me wrong, i am thrilled with the captured equipment and are very useful in western europe and even in the Balcans and it's definitely not a complaint. I'm just stating the facts. And as Kerensky says, they do count as core.Xitax wrote:Well they're extra and don't count against your core, so I don't see what the complaint is.nikivdd wrote:I 'm not requesting the Katyusa because it is a too fragile unit. It needs to be well protected. I prefer the self-propelled artillery unit that at least can take a pound or two. Not the artillery mounted on a truck.Kerensky wrote:
So convince us, how is the Katyusha a good candidate?
Sofar the focus has been put on ground units, why not air units?
The captured units from the western campaign are good but only till Barbarossa. The first part of the Russian campaign is about speed and how can my units push forward and encircle fast with a core including Mathila II's and CharB1's...
Personally i will upgrade them to PzIII's.
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
I am still using my Polish artillery just for the novelty value.
I find it fun to use odd units, and one of my main goals is going to be to keep those French tanks in use until the end of the war!
As for the Katyusha, my request was mainly because it was such a aesthetically unique and famous unit. I would concede that from a gameplay perspective, it doesn't necessarily have very much to offer over the German rocket artillery. And I personally don't remember ever reading anything specific about captured Katyushas being used but the bright fellows at the Axis History forum do seem to conclude that they were used in small quantities, there are some photos of captured German Katyushas on there.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=35308
I do understand your reluctance to include captured artillery since the differences between the different nationalities' artillery units are generally less interesting than say, their armored units or fighters. But I would somewhat dispute that artillery is less essential than in the main game. I do acknowledge that there are less fortified positions that we have to assault, but there are FAR more enemy counterattacks. In fact, counterattacks are almost unheard of in the vanilla game. And I find artillery to be really useful for defensive fire to help protect your units from these counter-attacks. Of course, as you know, my play style may be a bit weird compared to most other players, as our multiplayer game showed. But still, I think overall, artillery is as important as it ever has been.
I find it fun to use odd units, and one of my main goals is going to be to keep those French tanks in use until the end of the war!
As for the Katyusha, my request was mainly because it was such a aesthetically unique and famous unit. I would concede that from a gameplay perspective, it doesn't necessarily have very much to offer over the German rocket artillery. And I personally don't remember ever reading anything specific about captured Katyushas being used but the bright fellows at the Axis History forum do seem to conclude that they were used in small quantities, there are some photos of captured German Katyushas on there.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=35308
I do understand your reluctance to include captured artillery since the differences between the different nationalities' artillery units are generally less interesting than say, their armored units or fighters. But I would somewhat dispute that artillery is less essential than in the main game. I do acknowledge that there are less fortified positions that we have to assault, but there are FAR more enemy counterattacks. In fact, counterattacks are almost unheard of in the vanilla game. And I find artillery to be really useful for defensive fire to help protect your units from these counter-attacks. Of course, as you know, my play style may be a bit weird compared to most other players, as our multiplayer game showed. But still, I think overall, artillery is as important as it ever has been.