91,638 Prestige to 1,638 in a Single Scenario!

jaggy · Post by **jaggy** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:20 pm

I've just completed USA East Coast with a Decisive Victory but when upgrading/deploying troops for USA Midwest, 91,638 Prestige was reduced to 1,638! Is this a bug? I lost close to 90,000 in Prestige when I clicked the End Turn button to gain a Decisive Victory in USA East Coast. Any advice appreciated. Thanks in advance.

macattack · Post by **macattack** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:16 pm

It's probably designed to keep the forces in scale.

When you deployed for USA Midwest, were your forces reasonably matched with the USA's?

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:13 pm

My guess is because the in game counter only goes to 99,999 prestige (5 digits) that went it crossed over into the 100,000s, your prestige got reset. Or maybe it's still being tracked. Try buying some units, maybe your prestige will go back to the 99,000s

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:15 pm

Yup, upon checking, this is exactly what happened. When you mouse over your prestige number in the corner, it will display your actual prestige amount. 101,638. The quick reference window will say 01638.

jaggy · Post by **jaggy** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:20 am

Appreciate all the replies.

@Kerensky, *WHEW!!!*, thanks! After buying a couple of Maus, the Prestige counter showed the correct amount again. As an aside, can this be fixed in a later patch to prevent unsuspecting gamers from suffering a coronary?

Molve · Post by **Molve** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:16 am

Well, a hundred Maus tank units are sure to ruin the US commander's day!

You sure you're playing at a difficult enough setting...?

jaggy · Post by **jaggy** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:58 pm

Hi, Molve. Finished the 1939-45 campaign at Sergeant Difficulty Level.

Have just installed Panzer General Campaign, Historical Insignia pack, AT&AA and the Real Sound mod. Starting at Field Marshal difficulty now. Bad weather in Fall Weiss Poland starting in Game Turn 1, 969 Prestige, 4 Core Slots.

Something tells me the era of Happy Combat Rolls at Sgt Difficulty Level is over.

Guess its time to earn the epaulette.

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:19 pm

I don't know all the mods you just mentioned but suggest a Field Marshal campaign with only cosmetic (insignia pack e.g.) changes for now.
Your jump from Sergeant to Field Marshal is quite extreme, IMO!

jaggy · Post by **jaggy** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:24 am

Hi, Longasc. The default Panzer Corps campaign is only 14 scenarios. As someone mentioned earlier, just when you are really getting into the game (Heroes, Medals & Special Attributes), the game comes to an end. For myself, the heroes only started appearing in Russia. I understand the Panzer General Classic Mod has 37 scenarios in its campaign. The AT&AA mod lowers the cost of purchasing AT&AA by 10%.

You are right about extreme! Like jumping into a lake of ice water. Getting badly mauled by infantry. Unlike Sgt level, I'm really paying attention to the terrain now! Also the need to stack suppression and mass attack. Learnt my first bitter lesson at FM level. When you have an enemy aircraft in your sights, shoot it down! I damaged it badly with a Bf110 and instead of finishing it off, I used the Bf109E to strafe an infantry unit. Next turn, bad weather and the damaged aircraft scooted off. Something tells me he will be coming back.

I'm enjoying the game immensely though! And at FM level, I'm really having to appraise all my moves carefully. My 14th Slovak Inf is still balefully eyeballing the enemy in the city 2 hexes away. There is no way (unlike Sgt level) I can take out the infantry in it without artillery or air support. Bad weather keeps interfering with close air support and my pilots are reduced to shaking their fists at an enemy they can see but can't attack.

Any advice on FM level appreciated.

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:18 am

Suggestion for Poland: You don't have to take the city if you don't want to. You actually don't even need to.

How to tackle the city:

1.) move your Infantry close to it. Don't attack yet.
This also prevents cities from buying new units. Not that it is likely the enemy will reinforce this far away and unimportant non-victory hex city.

2.) buy a Ju87B tac bomber and/or a Ju88

3.) attack the city with one of them

4.) next turn attack with the air unit above the city, move it away, attack with the other air unit

5.) attack with your Infantry

This could already do it, if not, repeat.

impar · Post by **impar** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:28 am

jaggy wrote:Learnt my first bitter lesson at FM level. When you have an enemy aircraft in your sights, shoot it down! I damaged it badly with a Bf110 and instead of finishing it off, I used the Bf109E to strafe an infantry unit. Next turn, bad weather and the damaged aircraft scooted off. Something tells me he will be coming back.

I much preferr to leave it alive. Better to have the AI spend prestige in replenishing fighters than in ground units.

Tarrak · Post by **Tarrak** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:40 am

impar wrote:
jaggy wrote:Learnt my first bitter lesson at FM level. When you have an enemy aircraft in your sights, shoot it down! I damaged it badly with a Bf110 and instead of finishing it off, I used the Bf109E to strafe an infantry unit. Next turn, bad weather and the damaged aircraft scooted off. Something tells me he will be coming back.
I much preferr to leave it alive. Better to have the AI spend prestige in replenishing fighters than in ground units.

True but they like to reappear then at the least opportune place and ruin the day of one of you bombers.

impar · Post by **impar** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:53 am

Tarrak wrote:True but they like to reappear then at the least opportune place and ruin the day of one of you bombers.

Just use clusters.
One fighter defending several bombers. The AI wont attack.

Molve · Post by **Molve** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:02 pm

impar wrote:Better to have the AI spend prestige in replenishing fighters than in ground units.

That works when facing Polish, French or Soviet fighters.

It's not so fun any more when you face Western Allied fighters. Then you will start to hope it pours all its prestige into Shermans instead of fighter planes...

jaggy · Post by **jaggy** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:09 am

@Longasc - When you say move your Inf next to a city, you mean place your own unit just next to the city? Wouldn't the enemy unit in the city attack your unit? I thought it was desirable to occupy all cities, both primary and secondary, in order to secure more prestige? Thanks for the tip on cities being unable buy new units when you are next to them. I'll use it against the last primary objective next time. I would have used it against my last objective, Warsaw, had I known, as the AI kept pouring out units.

@impar - it was a bomber and after that let-off, it merrily returned to bomb the heck out of my ground units.

I managed to secure the last Polish airfield to the east of Radom but not in time, and had to watch in chagrin both the fighter and bomber hovering over their airfield, fully refueled and rearmed, to cause more havoc in the ensuing turns.

Thanks for the advice from all fellow gamers, its much appreciated.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:30 am

jaggy wrote:When you say move your Inf next to a city, you mean place your own unit just next to the city? Wouldn't the enemy unit in the city attack your unit? I thought it was desirable to occupy all cities, both primary and secondary, in order to secure more prestige?

It's a bit gamey but in the campaigns the defenders of a city are often set to Defend, Passive - in other words, they won't attack back even if a weakened enemy is adjacent. It's a problem in the AI, IMO but it sort of makes sense considering the scale of hexes. It's just not what a human player would do - they would burn that adjacent unit.

Not taking a city hex is a good option in many cases, such as:
1. the only thing you can do it with is an expensive tank or other armoured unit that will be open to counter attack by nearly enemy infantry
2. you don't actually want to take the flag because it will end the game (you mention that one)
I tend to put a tank adjacent to a city on clear terrain until the infantry get there. Even a counterattack will be on open terrain where the tank is at an advantage. Then, when the infantry arrive, they do what they are supposed to. The main advantage, of course, is that no new units can be put around the city while that tank (or other unit) is there. Take the city and get the prestige and don't suffer too much negative response.

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:31 am

You can script it so a passive defending unit will become active and defend normally or an attacker.

They just need to take the time to do it.

Like in the scenario where there are three forts.

They never shoot back.

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:14 am

Razz1 wrote:You can script it so a passive defending unit will become active and defend normally or an attacker.

They just need to take the time to do it.

How do you do this without making them Defender, Active which will see them come out of good defensive positions to attack a likely target? Is there some behind-the-scenes file or INI that can be configured?

Molve · Post by **Molve** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:13 pm

To be honest, before people start micromanaging the AI units too much, let's wait for an AI patch.

(At least I am assuming one will come eventually; the state of the AI is simply not good, and even moderate programming efforts to remove the more sillier behaviors should yield vast improvements on the percieved effectiveness of the AI, even if it doesn't actually get much "smarter" if at all.

Just making artillery fire BEFORE attacks is probably enough to crank up the general difficulty a whole notch by itself. If the AI can be taught to appreciate a defensive position (not leaving entrenchments) a bit more that would help immensely in scenario design. Finally, not bumbling trucks into front lines or the fog of war even, would mean a lot. If just three critical flaws could be addressed that would probably have a huge impact on the player's perception of "AI stupidity" and thus the game itself!

Things like effective unloading of sea transports, and unloading paratroopers at all, and a smarter routine for buying reinforcements, are more like icing on the cake. These abilities can effectively be hid or emulated by a good scenario designer and therefore aren't nearly as critical. The way AI naval units don't take care of enemy fleets BEFORE pounding on land units is another example of something we can live with)

jaggy · Post by **jaggy** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:46 pm

@El Condoro - Appreciate the insights, it really helps to know all these stuff especially when playing at FM level.

@ Molve - I don't know, the AI naval fleet in Norway are pounding my ships in the North to pieces! I'm not sure whether my Heavy Cruiser can survive up there before help arrives. One escort destroyer got sunk and the other badly damaged and this is all in Turn 1!

Have you guys ever lost all your ships up North in Norway at FM level? I know those 3 ground units are going to be in big trouble if the Royal Navy turns those guns on them. I've rushed up 2 Ju88s, 2 Stukas, 2 Bf109s but they will only get into action in Turn 3. I tried moving up a small naval task force just below the extreme northern force but they got intercepted and burned badly. So have to wait for reinforcements from the south to catch up.