Ok, I have played through the tutorials twice and dipped my toe into the Greece (Marita) scenario. It seems to me that there is a bit of guesswork involved in purchasing units before deployment. As you have no idea of the composition of the AI forces the temptation is to assemble a grab bag of all kinds of units to cover various possibilities but often you end up with AA units with nothing to do and fighters with nothing to fight that repeatedly strafe targets causing no damage or suppression when what you really needed was more mountain troops or AT units. Is there any kind of rule of thumb for putting together a force with minimal spare fat for a scenario?
Strategic bombers - are they just flying suppression tools or can they actually do serious damage to enemy units? I find it strange that you can fly one over a town and it keeps bombing away for turn after turn with minimal effect on the defenders, surely it should drop its entire payload in one turn and occassionally reduce defending strength by more than one point?
Naval transports caught by Heavy Cruisers/Battleships - surely these should be completely obliterated unless the capital ships are firing at extreme range? I had a transport spotted by an 8 level Heavy Cruiser at 2 hexes distance that only suffered one damage point, thats pretty unrealistic.
If you return a crippled ship to port it never has the opportunity to be refitted - is this because of not having enough prestige points or does the game assume there isn't enough time to do anything about it in the timeframe of a scenario?
Do you ever have to use the mount/dismount button for infantry in trucks? I only see the movement option to leave them in the truck or have them arrive somewhere already dismounted. Is it the case that if they you don't move them the maximum distance in a truck you get the option to dismount them, I've never seen that.
Use of Strategic bombers and some other stuff
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
I have never had a great need or use for strategic bombers. As you mention, their only really useful for suppression (unless there are naval units, but again, that is very limited as well in PC because there are no real naval scenarios) and it's been my experience that nothing suppresses better than damage from a Stuka. (i.e. suppress 6 units with the strategic bomber and it is still at full strength vs. eliminate 3 units with a Stuka). But I guess that it my play-style, I'd sooner kill than suppress. As to the strategic bomber causing actual unit damage, that part is historically accurate. Carpet bombing by strategic bombers was remarkably ineffective when it came to actually destroying units, especially if the enemy units were dug in or fortified. The suppression value of the strategic bombing is what you are looking for.Strategic bombers - are they just flying suppression tools or can they actually do serious damage to enemy units? I find it strange that you can fly one over a town and it keeps bombing away for turn after turn with minimal effect on the defenders, surely it should drop its entire payload in one turn and occassionally reduce defending strength by more than one point?
This one I agree with. A heavy cruiser or battleship should pretty well annihilate a transport.Naval transports caught by Heavy Cruisers/Battleships - surely these should be completely obliterated unless the capital ships are firing at extreme range? I had a transport spotted by an 8 level Heavy Cruiser at 2 hexes distance that only suffered one damage point, thats pretty unrealistic.
True, but isn't there a certain point where you reach "ducks in a barrel" Razz?Naval : Not really.. Have you ever tried to hit something in the water when you and the other vessel is moving?
Have you ever tried to hit a real small target?
In other words, if you manage to dodge my 16"-ers from a distance, I close in to target you with my numerous smaller guns, which will be far more accurate from a shorter range?
Strategic bombers can be very useful if employed correctly. They are the best anti-ship units in the game, but on land, their primary value is the ability to reduce the ammunition of units. I'd employ them on infantry or units with low ammo, then get two units next to it. The magic number is 3, which prevents resupply/reinforcements. An overstrengthed, elite strategic bomber is very effective at reducing ammunition, and generally it can reduce a 7 ammunition infantry down to 1 or 2. All you need to do is hit the weakened unit a bit until it runs out of ammo, then you can hit it without fear of retaliation.
This seems to be most valuable on Manstein difficulty.
Stukas are best against targets with low anti-air defense values, such as artillery, trucks, early tanks, antitank guns, etc. And units on rivers, which suffer a defense penalty.
This seems to be most valuable on Manstein difficulty.
Stukas are best against targets with low anti-air defense values, such as artillery, trucks, early tanks, antitank guns, etc. And units on rivers, which suffer a defense penalty.
Re: repairing/reinforcing naval units: the answer "Not enough points, plus it is a waste of your money" is slightly unclear I think. Better to simply say "it's not implemented" and to add "for two reasons; shipbuilding took place on a much longer timescale than this game; and, more importantly, Panzer Corps isn't about naval combat".
Re: mount/dismount button. You can use the dismount part of the button - when you've loaded up some unit and you change your mind. Then you can unload the trucks again. In all other cases, simply think the program automatically is clicking that button to unload your trucks for you at the start of every turn! (This is never a drawback, since you can just load them up again if you need to)
Re: mount/dismount button. You can use the dismount part of the button - when you've loaded up some unit and you change your mind. Then you can unload the trucks again. In all other cases, simply think the program automatically is clicking that button to unload your trucks for you at the start of every turn! (This is never a drawback, since you can just load them up again if you need to)
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El_Condoro
- Panzer Corps Moderator
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:32 am
Another reason to load artillery in transport would be if you don't want it to give defensive fire (and you're sure it either has or doesn't need air cover!). You thereby keep your artillery shells for offensive purposes rather than getting chewed up by armour that you can't hurt anyway. Unfortunately, this approach can't be used for SP ART, which is a pity since they normally have less ammo than towed ART.
My experience is that transports are very easily damaged, usually losing 6 or 7 strength points to a single attack. At least thats what happened to me when i played Sealion 42 and USA in the campaign. Load up Sealion and send out your transports and see how many times they lose 1 damage point (it might take a few games).Naval transports caught by Heavy Cruisers/Battleships - surely these should be completely obliterated unless the capital ships are firing at extreme range? I had a transport spotted by an 8 level Heavy Cruiser at 2 hexes distance that only suffered one damage point, thats pretty unrealistic.
The naval questions came up because in Marita you actually get the Italian Fleet to play with - 1 Sub, 3 Destroyers 2 Light Cruisers, 1 Heavy Cruiser and a Battleship. The Greek navy has 3 Destroyers and 3 Light Cruisers but they never come out of port so its pretty easy to destroy them.
I never realised Strat bombers were anti-shipping units, guess I need to read the manual more thoroughly!
Marita is an interesting scenario because as the Axis you get stuck with inferior Italian and Bulgarian infantry which take huge losses in combat even with the mass attack principle. Maybe a gamey way to get round this is to deliberately lose a few of them in suicide attacks early on and replace them with decent German units? You also need to use the rail network to get the pitfully slow artillery into useful positions later on. As far as I can see it the only way to get a decisive victory is to capture Salonika as quickly as possible to ferry troops down to Athens and Kalimari because the Italians and Bulgars get bogged down everywhere else.
I never realised Strat bombers were anti-shipping units, guess I need to read the manual more thoroughly!
Marita is an interesting scenario because as the Axis you get stuck with inferior Italian and Bulgarian infantry which take huge losses in combat even with the mass attack principle. Maybe a gamey way to get round this is to deliberately lose a few of them in suicide attacks early on and replace them with decent German units? You also need to use the rail network to get the pitfully slow artillery into useful positions later on. As far as I can see it the only way to get a decisive victory is to capture Salonika as quickly as possible to ferry troops down to Athens and Kalimari because the Italians and Bulgars get bogged down everywhere else.
That may be so in the Campaign, but in the scenario you don't have a 'core' force so you can replace any unit as long as you have the prestige points.Shrike wrote:Those Italian and Bulgarian troops are auxiliaries and - unlike in the PG series of games - you can't replace those on PC, since it only allows you to buy core troops.
Unless they can be switched into AT mode, like some russian self-propelled Arty.El_Condoro wrote:Unfortunately, this approach can't be used for SP ART, which is a pity since they normally have less ammo than towed ART.
(Yes, attacking with rugged units just to deplete supporting artillery of ammo, and only when they've run out attack with your Pioneers is a valid tactic)
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Kriegsheld
- Corporal - Strongpoint
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:27 pm
If you want to have the stronger attack values of the Ju87B you can't have the range of the Ju87R while a duo of level bombers are much more useful to deal with heavily entrenched units. Their suppression and ammo depletion are very dangerous, a pair of Ju88A will effectively destroy any enemy fortification in two turns even against strong AA fire Stukas would not survive. -> Just take a look a the Low Countries scenario for that and target the Forts with the Ju87B and then try the Ju88A. While a level bomber won't kill as many targets the caused suppression helps your attacking ground units. They also tend to take less damage from AA and fighter attacks.
In fact I favor level bombers in the default Panzer Corps campaign. 50/50 mix Stukas/Level Bombers. This might change with the upcoming 1939 and 1940 Grand Campaigns.
In fact I favor level bombers in the default Panzer Corps campaign. 50/50 mix Stukas/Level Bombers. This might change with the upcoming 1939 and 1940 Grand Campaigns.
