Actually I wanted to fight the British, too, but after reading about some problems there I took the French path.
Stonne - Colonel - previous DV
2470 prestige left after repairs - again looking high, got a 2nd elite PzIIIF which should come in handy here.
Behind a wall of artillery and the Luftwaffe I went on the attack right from the started and pretty much rolled over the opposition - reached Stonne by turn 4, which seemed to have triggered another wave of attackers, suddenly there were 5 enemy planes in the sky together with at least 8 units on the ground - nice one, this actually has cost me one of my PzIVDs, who was too far in front of the other forces.
One strange thing happened here, at turn 6 a STR2 fighter-bomber flew right next to Bulson, despite the fighting raging around Stonne. The same happened with a strategic bombers a bit later - it looks like the AI assumes to fight around Bulson while the real fight is still way south.
I liked the idea about the flanking cav units.
Hmm, shouldnt the scenario be finished once I controll all objectives? The AI only had units left by turn 13, but the game continued anyway. Maybe since is (at least nominally) a defence mission it will last for the full length?
After hunting down the last remaining unit I had a DV at turn 18 with 1760 prestige left.
Overall the AIs bomber behaviour looked strange, other than that a decent map and the flanking cavs are a nice touch.
CharonJr
Stonne report (scenario 16 - French)
Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Working as intended. The explanation is possibly a little too subtle at the moment, but here's the new logic.
Defensive scenarios have different wording now. This is why Piatek (where you START with controlling all VH) does not immediately reward decisive victory. That would be silly, no?
Piatek, for example:
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_CAM_OBJECTIVES <i>Decisive Victory:</i><br>Maintain control of all objectives.<br><br><i>Marginal Victory:</i><br>Hold at least one objective.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_SCN_OBJECTIVES Hold at least one objective.
It does not say capture objectives, but rather that you must control them. Control in this context means 'until end of turns' or 'until all enemy opposition has been wiped out'.
Stonne follows a similar wording.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_CAM_OBJECTIVES <i>Decisive Victory:</i><br>Capture and hold all objectives.<br><br><i>Marginal Victory:</i><br>Hold at least 4 objectives.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_SCN_OBJECTIVES Capture all Objectives.
Capture AND hold.
Whereas normal scenarios such as Poznan:
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_CAM_OBJECTIVES <i>Decisive Victory:</i><br>Capture all city objectives and capture at least 3 Polish Airfields.<br><br><i>Marginal Victory:</i><br>Capture at least 3 city objectives.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_SCN_OBJECTIVES Capture all Objectives.
It just says capture capture capture. Does this explanation help at all?
Defensive scenarios have different wording now. This is why Piatek (where you START with controlling all VH) does not immediately reward decisive victory. That would be silly, no?
Piatek, for example:
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_CAM_OBJECTIVES <i>Decisive Victory:</i><br>Maintain control of all objectives.<br><br><i>Marginal Victory:</i><br>Hold at least one objective.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_SCN_OBJECTIVES Hold at least one objective.
It does not say capture objectives, but rather that you must control them. Control in this context means 'until end of turns' or 'until all enemy opposition has been wiped out'.
Stonne follows a similar wording.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_CAM_OBJECTIVES <i>Decisive Victory:</i><br>Capture and hold all objectives.<br><br><i>Marginal Victory:</i><br>Hold at least 4 objectives.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_SCN_OBJECTIVES Capture all Objectives.
Capture AND hold.
Whereas normal scenarios such as Poznan:
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_CAM_OBJECTIVES <i>Decisive Victory:</i><br>Capture all city objectives and capture at least 3 Polish Airfields.<br><br><i>Marginal Victory:</i><br>Capture at least 3 city objectives.
IDS_SCEN_AXIS_SCN_OBJECTIVES Capture all Objectives.
It just says capture capture capture. Does this explanation help at all?
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
I just finished this scenario and initially thought I had a bug to report since the game didn't immediately award decisive victory when I captured all the hexes. Am I to understand that you need to destroy all the enemy units as well then?
I have to say, for the first time since I started testing this brilliant DLC, this felt like a scenario that majorly needed to be toned down. In fact, it even felt to me like the Balaton of the West. For me, this battle was an enormous bloodbath. I lost two panzers, my beloved 88, two auxillary anti-units and two recon cars. My units were getting so beat up that toward the end, I did not even have the prestige to reinforce them.
This scenario follows a design philosophy that is similar to Balaton in that you are nominally on the offensive, but against a foe that is generally qualitatively and quantitatively superior. The sheer amount of Chars that are thrown at you, my god, the Chars. It is enough to drive a Wehrmacht general to weep.
After getting to about the half-way mark on the map, it was only about turn 6 and I thought that maybe this was going to be one that would be beaten far ahead of the time limit. I had already crushed a large force of units and with prudent use of surrender tactics and attacking in an efficient manner, I had swept aside the French and victory seemed at hand. Then the tidal wave of Chars hit, char after char seemed to come out of the woodwork, not to mention a seemingly never-ending parade of infantry and cavalry.
My units got so beat up and prestige got to be so low that I had to form a "junkyard" behind the lines of units that were too damaged to fight but too expensive to reinforce. I still somehow hobbled to a decisive victory with two or three turns left, but this scenario was the very definition of a Pyrrhic victory. Luckily, i had enough prestige at the start of the next scenario (1305) to get my force basically back to where it was, but elite reinforcements were out the window for sure and my core seems to be a shell of what it was, in terms of greatly reduced experience levels.
I have to say, for the first time since I started testing this brilliant DLC, this felt like a scenario that majorly needed to be toned down. In fact, it even felt to me like the Balaton of the West. For me, this battle was an enormous bloodbath. I lost two panzers, my beloved 88, two auxillary anti-units and two recon cars. My units were getting so beat up that toward the end, I did not even have the prestige to reinforce them.
This scenario follows a design philosophy that is similar to Balaton in that you are nominally on the offensive, but against a foe that is generally qualitatively and quantitatively superior. The sheer amount of Chars that are thrown at you, my god, the Chars. It is enough to drive a Wehrmacht general to weep.
After getting to about the half-way mark on the map, it was only about turn 6 and I thought that maybe this was going to be one that would be beaten far ahead of the time limit. I had already crushed a large force of units and with prudent use of surrender tactics and attacking in an efficient manner, I had swept aside the French and victory seemed at hand. Then the tidal wave of Chars hit, char after char seemed to come out of the woodwork, not to mention a seemingly never-ending parade of infantry and cavalry.
My units got so beat up and prestige got to be so low that I had to form a "junkyard" behind the lines of units that were too damaged to fight but too expensive to reinforce. I still somehow hobbled to a decisive victory with two or three turns left, but this scenario was the very definition of a Pyrrhic victory. Luckily, i had enough prestige at the start of the next scenario (1305) to get my force basically back to where it was, but elite reinforcements were out the window for sure and my core seems to be a shell of what it was, in terms of greatly reduced experience levels.
Interesting feedback.
Stonne is a pretty tough counter-attack, there's no easy river line to hold like there is in Piatek.
There is a prestige dump of 2000 going into Stonne, the highest amount rewarded in the entire DLC campaigns, and you said you have 1.3k to return your force back up to strength. So you haven't dipped into the red, but keep in mind that marginal victories may be important to strive for if you feel your core is falling in strength rather than gaining.
Decisive victories will test your core a lot, in DLC 1940 and in the future as well.
Those Char Bs (5 of them) actually would attack in waves, but your quick advance triggered their attack en masse. This is the danger of Active AI instead of passive. People have been asking for active AI though so... I would recommend slowing down your advance, using the large turn counts to your advantage. Rushing headlong into the enemy isn't going to work so well going into the future.
Give this tactic a try. Advance slower, form solid defensive lines, see if there are enemy counter attacks. If your advance recon and air scouts don't detect enemy movement. Move up, grab some territory, and form a new line. Rinse and repeat, slowly advancing down the map.
I dunno what else to add, I did write it right into the briefing.
<p>Be warned that a number of French heavy tanks have been spotted along with ample support units, so advance cautiously and be prepared for fierce resistance!</p>
Stonne is a pretty tough counter-attack, there's no easy river line to hold like there is in Piatek.
There is a prestige dump of 2000 going into Stonne, the highest amount rewarded in the entire DLC campaigns, and you said you have 1.3k to return your force back up to strength. So you haven't dipped into the red, but keep in mind that marginal victories may be important to strive for if you feel your core is falling in strength rather than gaining.
Decisive victories will test your core a lot, in DLC 1940 and in the future as well.
Those Char Bs (5 of them) actually would attack in waves, but your quick advance triggered their attack en masse. This is the danger of Active AI instead of passive. People have been asking for active AI though so... I would recommend slowing down your advance, using the large turn counts to your advantage. Rushing headlong into the enemy isn't going to work so well going into the future.
Give this tactic a try. Advance slower, form solid defensive lines, see if there are enemy counter attacks. If your advance recon and air scouts don't detect enemy movement. Move up, grab some territory, and form a new line. Rinse and repeat, slowly advancing down the map.
I dunno what else to add, I did write it right into the briefing.
<p>Be warned that a number of French heavy tanks have been spotted along with ample support units, so advance cautiously and be prepared for fierce resistance!</p>
I might actually say you were a victim of victory disease.monkspider wrote:I
After getting to about the half-way mark on the map, it was only about turn 6 and I thought that maybe this was going to be one that would be beaten far ahead of the time limit. I had already crushed a large force of units and with prudent use of surrender tactics and attacking in an efficient manner, I had swept aside the French and victory seemed at hand. Then the tidal wave of Chars hit, char after char seemed to come out of the woodwork, not to mention a seemingly never-ending parade of infantry and cavalry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_disease
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
Ya, know, that is quite possible actually!
I could have organized my forces in a more defensible manner, but I really did think I would be done with the scenario in two or three turns and I would get to laugh at you for making a scenario have 22 turns that I could beat in 8 or 9.
At least two of the units that were destroyed were forward units that I thought were advancing against a beaten foe and I had allowed them to move further ahead than I should have. And yes, if I had done a better job of heeding the advice of Herr Halbermann, I would have been in much better shape.
That is good advice about advancing more cautiously though, I will just have to get out of the old Panzer Corps mindset of speed above all else.
I could have organized my forces in a more defensible manner, but I really did think I would be done with the scenario in two or three turns and I would get to laugh at you for making a scenario have 22 turns that I could beat in 8 or 9.
At least two of the units that were destroyed were forward units that I thought were advancing against a beaten foe and I had allowed them to move further ahead than I should have. And yes, if I had done a better job of heeding the advice of Herr Halbermann, I would have been in much better shape.
That is good advice about advancing more cautiously though, I will just have to get out of the old Panzer Corps mindset of speed above all else.
Last edited by monkspider on Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
People have done this to my work on Arras. It makes memonkspider wrote:Ya, know, that is quite possible actually!
I could have organized my forces in a more defensible manner, but I really did think I would be done with the scenario in two or three turns and I would get to laugh at you for making a scenario have 22 turns that I could beat in 8 or 9.
At least two of the units that were destroyed were forward units that I thought were advancing against a beaten foe and I had allowed them to move further ahead than I should have. And yes, if I had done a better job of heeding the advice of Herr Halbermann, I would have been in much better shape.
But Stonne and Wassigny were more carefully (deviously?) designed. Arras has been brought up to the level of challenge and difficulty you see in Stonne, it will go live in the update.
Although I should point out, out of two people with feedback on this scenario, both have expressed the same concern and confusion (why hasn't the scenario ended when I captured all victory hexes?)
I'll change the victory triggers. Capturing all victory hexes will instantly result in victory.
So it will be possible to blitz and preempt the French attacks, but as you found out yourself, this is not an easy or painless task.
And hell, I'll even take out a char B or two while I'm at it, just for you.
By take out, I mean replace with 5 star 15 strength S35s....
Okay FINE just normal S35s.
Just promise me you will carefully read the Wassigny briefing, and when Habermann says:
I'll change the victory triggers. Capturing all victory hexes will instantly result in victory.
So it will be possible to blitz and preempt the French attacks, but as you found out yourself, this is not an easy or painless task.
And hell, I'll even take out a char B or two while I'm at it, just for you.
By take out, I mean replace with 5 star 15 strength S35s....
Okay FINE just normal S35s.
Just promise me you will carefully read the Wassigny briefing, and when Habermann says:
You will heed his warnings!<p>As a warning, you should expect the French to feverishly resist your efforts, and you will inevitably face a significant counter-attack as soon as you gain control of Giraud and his staff. Should this prove too difficult to accomplish, or should something happen to General Giraud, you should at least maintain control of 4 objectives.</p>
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monkspider
- Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:22 am
You are too kind.Kerensky wrote:Although I should point out, out of two people with feedback on this scenario, both have expressed the same concern and confusion (why hasn't the scenario ended when I captured all victory hexes?)
I'll change the victory triggers. Capturing all victory hexes will instantly result in victory.
So it will be possible to blitz and preempt the French attacks, but as you found out yourself, this is not an easy or painless task.
And hell, I'll even take out a char B or two while I'm at it, just for you.
By take out, I mean replace with 5 star 15 strength S35s....
Okay FINE just normal S35s.
Just promise me you will carefully read the Wassigny briefing, and when Habermann says:
<p>As a warning, you should expect the French to feverishly resist your efforts, and you will inevitably face a significant counter-attack as soon as you gain control of Giraud and his staff. Should this prove too difficult to accomplish, or should something happen to General Giraud, you should at least maintain control of 4 objectives.</p>
You will heed his warnings!
Oh Halbermann, you so crazy. I already crushed the French army at Stonne. There is no way they could possibly counter-attack.