Welsh Spearmen

[whitehorses]

Having looked through the 100YW list, I see that Welsh Spearmen are described as Offensive Spearmen.
Is there an argument that early Welsh could be Offensive or for a Guerilla campaign, but more often than not were were more in line with Defensive Spearmen?

"The initial charge was a headlong assault accompanied by thrown javelins; this could be followed up by feigned flight (a common tactic amongst lightly armed and agile troops to lead their enemy into a trap). At the Battle of Lincoln in 1141, it was recorded that "On the flank there was a great multitude of Welshmen, better provided with daring than with arms" - as with most Celts of the medieval period, the Welsh relied upon agility and cunning as opposed to armour.
When this agility was forsaken, the Welsh were comprehensively beaten - at Orewin Bridge (1282) and Maes Moydog (1295), the Welsh stood in phalanxes of long spears, like the Scots, and were shot to pieces and charges by Edward I's combination of archers and horsemen."

"A final battle between Madog's men and those of the English crown occurred at Maes Moydog in 1295. The Welsh army were defeated tactically when in an attempt to destroy the English cavalry by using the "porcupine" pike men formation, they were showered with arrows and suffered very heavy losses. Madog barely escaped with his life and was a fugitive until his unconditional surrender to John de Havering in late July or early August of 1295. He was subsequently taken to London, and all that is known of his fate is that he did not suffer the supreme penalty."

"As in the previous war, with Edward's advance on Snowdonia stalled, the head of the rebellion judged the time right to launch an indirect counterattack. Madog decided to lead his army eastward to threaten Shrewsbury. According to the Hagnaby chronicle, "[Madog] came into Powys with the elite of his Welshmen." The Welsh army camped at Maes Moydog, northeast of Montgomery. English agents, however, informed the commander of the central force of Madog's location. Gathering together 120 knights and 2,500 infantrymen, William de Beauchamp raced back from Oswestry to his base at Montgomery. From there, he approached the Welsh camp under cover of darkness.
On the morning of March 5, the Welsh prepared to do battle. According to Trivet, "They planted the butts of their spears on the ground, and turned the points against the charging cavalry so as to defend themselves from their rush." Initially the results were promising, as the first charge was repulsed with the loss of 10 horses. In the words of the Hagnaby chronicle, "The Welshmen held their ground well, and they were the best and bravest Welsh that anyone had seen." Beauchamp then placed his archers between his knights, so that their fire could produce gaps in the Welsh line of spearmen that his knights could exploit. Presumably that tactic succeeded, as the Welsh formation was broken by the second assault and their army was routed. At the cost of only 90 infantrymen, according to the Hagnaby chronicle, the English managed to kill 700 Welsh "of the nobler sort." Although Madog escaped, the defeat at Maes Moydog tore the heart out of the rebellion."



Cheers,
Jer

[rbodleyscott]

Even Offensive spearmen behave defensively if faced by mounted shock troops. (If they charge knights, they are on net - POA. If they stand to be charged, they are on net + POA).

Therefore we don't judge whether spears are Offensive or Defensive on the basis of their behaviour when faced by knights. What decides this is their expected behaviour vs infantry, and whether or not they are support troops or the main fighting force of the army.

The general principle is that if spears are the main fighting force of the army, they more or less have to be Offensive - else how could the army ever historically expect to win a battle? Standing around in clumps waiting for the enemy to suicide on to your spears is not an all-purpose plan unless you are expecting to win the battle with some other troops.

The Scots and Lowlanders are Offensive spears too, for the same reason.