Flank Charge 1MU/Wheel

[Philotomy]

What is the intent behind the rule that says you can't wheel and make a flank charge if you are within 1MU? That is, what is it trying to model or what situations is it trying to prevent?

[imanfasil]

If you have a line of units fighting, and one unit in the middle breaks... the pursuing unit cannot wheel immediately and flank charge the enemy unit it is postioned to fight as an overlap (in side to side contact) on its next impact phase.

You can either enjoy overlapping on both sides or you can turn to face one opponent or the other, but no flank charge.

[Philotomy]

If you have a line of units fighting, and one unit in the middle breaks... the pursuing unit cannot wheel immediately and flank charge the enemy unit it is postioned to fight as an overlap (in side to side contact) on its next impact phase.

You can either enjoy overlapping on both sides or you can turn to face one opponent or the other, but no flank charge.

Yes, that makes sense.

How about this:



Pic is red pike block facing up page and in contact with blue heavy foot facing down page. In between the marsh and the melee is a 4 base unit of blue cavalry, facing (generally) down the page. The cavalry was never in a combat with the red pikes (even as overlap), nor was it part of a battle line with the blue HF. The cavalry is just within 1MU of the pike block. To contact the pike block with a charge, the cavalry needs to wheel. According to the letter of the rules, this cavalry unit cannot make a legal flank charge.

Would you make an exception and allow the cavalry to flank charge the pikes in this situation? The 1MU rule seems intended to apply to a different kind of situation. That, combined with the "just barely within 1MU" factor makes the 1MU rule feel odd for this situation. What do you think?

[imanfasil]

I would not make an exception... you are welcome to charge - it just wouldn't be a flank charge it would be a frontal charge that could legally contact the 3rd rank or 4th rank.

If you really want to charge the flank it will take another turn to set up.

[Philotomy]

I would not make an exception... you are welcome to charge - it just wouldn't be a flank charge it would be a frontal charge that could legally contact the 3rd rank or 4th rank.

If you really want to charge the flank it will take another turn to set up.

Okay, thanks for your feedback.

FWIW, we did execute it as a non-flank charge. The charge was handled as a normal frontal charge and the cavalry battle group later aligned and melee'd as overlap. The 1MU restriction just felt "off" in the situation (contrasted with the situation of wheeling out of overlap to a flank charge, where the 1MU restriction feels correct), so I thought I'd ask and see what others thought.

[zoltan]

I would not make an exception... you are welcome to charge - it just wouldn't be a flank charge it would be a frontal charge that could legally contact the 3rd rank or 4th rank.

If you really want to charge the flank it will take another turn to set up.

I think this example illustrates what a nonsense this rule can sometimes be. If the charging BG was a few milimetres further away (i.e. outside 1 MU) it would be able to make a wheeling flank charge with devastating effect.

[imanfasil]

I would not make an exception... you are welcome to charge - it just wouldn't be a flank charge it would be a frontal charge that could legally contact the 3rd rank or 4th rank.

If you really want to charge the flank it will take another turn to set up.

I think this example illustrates what a nonsense this rule can sometimes be. If the charging BG was a few milimetres further away (i.e. outside 1 MU) it would be able to make a wheeling flank charge with devastating effect.

I don't disagree but how is that different than a case where you are directly behind an enemy in melee facing his rear but 1mm outside of charge range and he breaks your unit and pursues them escaping the flank charge? Anything that has rules and measurements will always be a game of millimeters.

I'll gladly see the situation the OP described feel a little bit wrong occasionally than not have the rule and in every single games with lines of infantry clashing see the result of not having the rule. I'll go so far as to say I love the rule. We always disliked DBM becuase it was too much a case of - oh look... I am 1mm behind the rear corner of your base now instead of having to double you to kill you and push back does it' and crap like that... in FoG it is usually obvious when flanks have been turned and happens when units are blown up, or a poor general (or rolls) leaves a unit exposed, but the results are devastating.

[zoltan]

Why should there be a special rule for flank charge wheels? There should simply be one rule relating to declaring a wheel when declaring a charge. If there is a specific situation you want to ban (such as the example cited of a middle BG of a 3 BG line routing its opponents and then wheeling into the flank of its neighbour's opponents) then a prohibtion should be placed on that misdemeanour.

[philqw78]

...(such as the example cited of a middle BG of a 3 BG line routing its opponents and then wheeling into the flank of its neighbour's opponents) then a prohibtion should be placed on that misdemeanour.

and how would that be easily written to avoid rules lawyers?

[imanfasil]

One of two things happened:

1) The CV player in the OP didn't set the charge up on his prior move by wheeling 2mm more at the end of the move that put him there. Either a mistake or didn't know the rule and it was pointed out to him by his opponent when he thought it was going to be a flank charge. That is not a problem with the rule, Even in most tournament games, I'd ask my opponent if he thought that was going to be a flank charge and point it out to him that it wouldn't be and why not and allow him to fix it. (saves arguing over the last mm of him being within an inch or not)

OR

2) the unit to be flank charged wasn't there when the CV last moved. In that case it will take one move to set up a flank charge. I don't think that is wrong at all.

[ShrubMiK]

I don't have a problem with the rule as it stands.

I would prefer not trying to introduce new special cases that involve me arguing with an opponent over whether a BG was "part of a battle line" or not!

Another alternative which might work reasonably simply would be to limit the amount of wheel allowed in a charge, to say 60 degrees. Wheeling 90 and contacting something is quite hard in any case unless you are either LH (and anything that hnders them a bit is just gravy ), or slower troops who are in overlap and would be subject to the 1MU flank charge rule anyway.

[Philotomy]

1) The CV player in the OP didn't set the charge up on his prior move by wheeling 2mm more at the end of the move that put him there. Either a mistake or didn't know the rule and it was pointed out to him by his opponent when he thought it was going to be a flank charge.

This was the case, and is a very good point. I've mostly played the computer version, and when I played tabletop, before, it was with an experienced opponent who handled most of the rules. This time, my opponent was brand new, and I'm the more experienced player, despite being a newbie still trying to learn all the TT rules for movement and such.

The CV player was my opponent. He managed to win a cavalry battle that opened up my flank, so he moved on in. The turn after he made that move we stopped for the evening and picked up the game the next day. Neither of us were aware of the 1MU rule, but discovered it when we were working through the rules for his charge. In retrospect, I think the correct thing to do would've been to say "hey, if you'd known you would've wheeled at bit more." At the time we were so focused on learning and applying the rules that it didn't occur to me (or apparently him, as he didn't protest or argue it).

On the bright side, at least we learned how to handle a non-flank charge.