mid-Republican Roman Allies - which is 'best' for tournament

pease1 · Post by **pease1** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:17 pm

I'm about to finish up painting all the core troops I need to build a large army from the MRR list, including all the possible Italian Allies and these non-core optional battle groups: Numidian Elephants BG, a Numidian Cavalry BG, a Gauls BG and a BG of Theuropori (sp?) so I can pick-and-choose my 8 bases of optional troops from the MRR list as needed. The question is, if I decide to paint up some BGs from one of the allowed list of allies, which would be recommended for tournament play, and what composition of battle groups would you recommend with that ally? I'm going to use the army in some fun/historical games with my club, but if I'm going to paint up some allies I might as well pick the ally that works for competitive games. If I do the same with any opponent army I should end up with a good pairing for practice games with friends.

One other consideration would be to use the ally BGs as the starting point for another army, which would be an appropriate opponent for the MRR army, hence the Numidians and Gauls from the optional units - both could also see duty as portions of a Carthaginian army.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions,
AJ

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:46 pm

Haven't got the list with me but IIRC they have Bithynian allies which get BG's of 4 Theurophoroi which can be useful and some superior armoured lancers. They could start off later Jewish or Seleucid type armies.

edit
Replace Bithynian with Pergamene
Thanks Tim

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:16 pm

I've most often seen it taken with the extra cavalry from the Pergamene list to change the balance of the army.

http://www.madaxeman.com/wiki2/tiki-ind ... ican+Roman

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:41 pm

Pergamenes for lancer 4pak + off. spear 4pak(s) + LF 4pak(s).

paulburton · Post by **paulburton** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:25 pm

I haven't tried Mid Republicans but would be tempted by Numidian Allies (Scipio and Massinissa at Zama) or Pergamenes (Magnesia). The Pergamene contingent looks good (Spears, Lancers), while swathes of light horse and 4 base BGs of Light Foot (though could be a typo - they are 6-8 in the main list) have their uses too.

I would recommend going by personalities. For MRR I would tend to pick Scipio (Africanus or Aemelianus).

pease1 · Post by **pease1** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:53 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll look at the Pergamenes first. Morphing them into Selucids later is very tempting.

BlackPrince · Post by **BlackPrince** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:37 pm

Any option that gives you Nellies is good they really piss off Knight armies. I had an interesting game where a BG Neliies spent the game chasing my Kn BG all around the board.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:39 pm

Had one game where my Mid Romans had more elephants (w Numidian ally) than the Seleucids they were fighting!!

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:51 am

BlackPrince wrote:Any option that gives you Nellies is good they really piss off Knight armies. I had an interesting game where a BG Neliies spent the game chasing my Kn BG all around the board.

Why, superior 6 dice v's average 4 dice? The Kn must lose 3 bases before they explode, the nellies 1. Providing there are no other troops around to mess up your party the knights should have the elephants.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:49 pm

Knights lose dice for being disordered by the elephants and they don't get any POA's so the elephants are + at 4 dice versus 4 dice. Lose 1 die per 3 for being disordered. Mounted don't like elephants, personally I try to keep my mounted away from them and let the light javelins deal with them.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:29 am

deadtorius wrote:Knights lose dice for being disordered by the elephants and they don't get any POA's so the elephants are + at 4 dice versus 4 dice. Lose 1 die per 3 for being disordered. Mounted don't like elephants, personally I try to keep my mounted away from them and let the light javelins deal with them.

Well if you want to keep your knights on the same frontage as the elephants you deserve to lose. But normally the kinghts would have a wider frontage.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:23 am

philqw78 wrote:
deadtorius wrote:Knights lose dice for being disordered by the elephants and they don't get any POA's so the elephants are + at 4 dice versus 4 dice. Lose 1 die per 3 for being disordered. Mounted don't like elephants, personally I try to keep my mounted away from them and let the light javelins deal with them.
Well if you want to keep your knights on the same frontage as the elephants you deserve to lose. But normally the kinghts would have a wider frontage.

That would be 6 dice (on a frontage four wide) v 4 average dice put a general with Knights rerolls 1 and 2's. I have done it before and killed the nellies, as long as there isn't any other enemy troops around.

Mehrunes · Post by **Mehrunes** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:40 pm

And this is where reality comes in and substitutes theory. When the heck does one single BG of elephants fight a single four-wide BG of knights?

Keep elephants in battle lines otherwise you deserve to lose them to not only knights...

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:37 pm

Mehrunes wrote:And this is where reality comes in and substitutes theory. When the heck does one single BG of elephants fight a single four-wide BG of knights?
Keep elephants in battle lines otherwise you deserve to lose them to not only knights...

You mean this reality

BlackPrince wrote:Any option that gives you Nellies is good they really piss off Knight armies. I had an interesting game where a BG Neliies spent the game chasing my Kn BG all around the board.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:52 pm

I've found it depends on player. Everyone has their own tactics they like and things that worry them. That's why I'm more inclined to tell new souls to just try things...see what you end up liking...there are no perfect compositions since it always varies depending on soul.

Dead. tends to twitch when an elephant looks at anything with four legs. But if you're not hung like an elephant (ehehe..couldn't resist) he charges at you with everything and you never get a moment to think! Me...I just charge in with whatever is there...I've become very good at routing!

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:43 pm

I have successfully deployed and kept Blatherguts Cavalry opposite my elephants so he has no choice but to eventually charge them or get charged by them, good bye cavalry.

To clarify above, elephants disorder any mounted within half a base of them so whether your knights are coming in a single line or 2 deep they are all disordered by the elephants and you lose 1 die per 3 so your going to end up even on the dice against the elephants who will be up on you with POA's. Never faced knights since neither of us has any armies earlier than ancient but just looking at it I would say the elephants still have a pretty good chance against knights. but I have seen them shatter and disappear with unlucky death rolls so they are not a guarantee. I just prefer to keep my cats and cav far away from them.

pease1 · Post by **pease1** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:08 pm

So building a new build of my Roman list and decided to search the forums to see if anyone had asked about allies. Found this thread and discovered that I did! LOL!

I now have the Pergeme contingent painted and will be trying it. I went for the 4-pack of lancers, 4-pack of Gaul superior cav and one BG of 6 Theorophoroi infantry. I took them as MF since I have all the HF I need in the Roman part of my list. Hopefully they'll find some terrain to dominate!

IanB3406 · Post by **IanB3406** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:23 am

For what it's worth, I'm looking at building this army and have come to the conclusion that allies aren't worth it. Take more romans

2*8 Average Armoured Hastati and Pricncipates
4*4 Superior "" "" "" "" ""
1*4 Elite Triari
1*4 Superior Triari
fill out with 4TC, and bunch of protected velites, one BG of numidians and possibly one other light foot or Itallian allied infantry.

And just get the 38 stands of heavy infantry into something. Having played against a similar army it's hard to take down even if it doesn't roll.

Ian

jlopez · Post by **jlopez** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:00 pm

IanB3406 wrote:For what it's worth, I'm looking at building this army and have come to the conclusion that allies aren't worth it. Take more romans

2*8 Average Armoured Hastati and Pricncipates
4*4 Superior "" "" "" "" ""
1*4 Elite Triari
1*4 Superior Triari
fill out with 4TC, and bunch of protected velites, one BG of numidians and possibly one other light foot or Itallian allied infantry.

And just get the 38 stands of heavy infantry into something. Having played against a similar army it's hard to take down even if it doesn't roll.

Ian

I've come to the same conclusion except I don't bother with any mounted at all, not even Numidians. They just end up being an easy kill for your opponent for very little gain. Stick to the legions and your opponent has no choice but to fight them unless he's rather play for a draw.