Orbing from Column

imanfasil · Post by **imanfasil** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:03 am

The rules on Orb say it is treated as a contraction.... what if I am in a one base wide column? Can I 'expand' into Orb?

Thanks,
James

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:44 am

I believe so - check out the FAQs - it is not explicit but since you can expand in a restricted area I think it is permissable.

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:15 am

imanfasil wrote:The rules on Orb say it is treated as a contraction.... what if I am in a one base wide column? Can I 'expand' into Orb?

Thanks,
James

I think the answer is a resounding "no"; you can not expand into orb. Both the RAW and the FAQs explicitly refer to contracting to 2 files wide in relation to forming orb. A 1 file wide column simply can not contract into a 2 file wide orb.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:50 am

If it's a contraction that's required, can I do it if I start in a 2 wide formation?

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:04 am

grahambriggs wrote:If it's a contraction that's required, can I do it if I start in a 2 wide formation?

The RAW refer to contracting to 2 files wide. The FAQs qualify this by saying 'if not already 2 wide'.

So based on the FAQs if you are already 2 files wide you are not required to perform a contraction in order to form orb.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:21 am

I think the answer is a resounding "no"; you can not expand into orb. Both the RAW and the FAQs explicitly refer to contracting to 2 files wide in relation to forming orb. A 1 file wide column simply can not contract into a 2 file wide orb.

Personally I think that is a too narrow and restrictive reading of the rules - but sadly it is what is written.

So if I'm a 4 base pike BG, deployed in fighting formation - ie 4 deep, you're saying I can't form orb unless I go 2 wide first?

If you were playing me I'd allow it.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:47 pm

Also what about BG of Triarii that are only 2 bases? You are saying that they have to be 2 wide to form orb, but would then need to contract to do so.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:06 am

I recall the Triarii question came up a long while ago, some players felt you need more than 2 bases to for orb. Unfortunately I do not recall what the final verdict was although I did not have a problem with it myself.

zoltan · Post by **zoltan** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:27 am

RAW page 122, second bullet.
"It is depicted by contracting the battle group to 2 files wide, and turning at least half the battle group's ranks to face the rear. The normal rules for a stationary contraction are used,....."

The rules authors appear to clearly envisage Orb being formed as a contraction to get to 2 files wide.

FAQ 19 Can Orb be formed in a restricted area?
"Yes and no. You cannot contract in a restricted area, but you can turn. When forming orb you contract to 2 wide if not already 2 wide. So you can form Orb in a resticted area if you are already 2 wide and do not need to contract. You cannot form Orb if wider."

The rules authors initially confirm the RAW by restating that forming Orb involves a contraction to reach 2 files wide. They then muddy the waters by allowing Orb to be formed without a contraction (within the restricted area) if the BG is already 2 files wide.

In no case do the rules authors appear to envisage Orb being formed by expansion from a 1 file wide column. Maybe this is intended; maybe its an oversight?

As a regular user of 4 pak spearmen in 1 file wide columns my personal preference is for the liberal interpretation allowing for expansion into Orb. Sadly, I do not think a reasonable interpretation of the rules permits it.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:21 am

zoltan wrote: As a regular user of 4 pak spearmen in 1 file wide columns my personal preference is for the liberal interpretation allowing for expansion into Orb. Sadly, I do not think a reasonable interpretation of the rules permits it.

And as the authors are keen to discourage such formations I suspect that there may be no change unless for 2 base BGs.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:18 am

nikgaukroger wrote:And as the authors are keen to discourage such formations I suspect that there may be no change unless for 2 base BGs.

Is this because of some historical justification, or just because its easier not to re-write the rule?

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:02 pm

Probably the latter. I think that any BG regardless of size or shape be allowed to form orb, but the authors originally envisioned a line of spears contracting to form orb. Thus no mention of other possible configurations. Only later when people began to insist that the only way to interpret the rule was that you had tocontract to form orb did it suddenly dawn on them that their mechanism did not account for other possibilities. Thus the FAQ, which still does not address BGs that are already less than two bases wide. In many instances, the FAQ does more violence to common sense than the original rules. If I were in charge I would deal with many things more holistically, but I'm not so I'll just stand on the sidelines and toss hand grenades, which I readily admit is anacronistic.

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:41 pm

I'll just stand on the sidelines and toss hand grenades, which I readily admit is anacronistic.

Why do you think it's anachronistic? Hell, you're an Elite Panzer IV F/2. How is a hand grenade anachronistic to you?

Orbing from Column

Orbing from Column

Re: Orbing from Column