Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?

asrn · Post by **asrn** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:19 pm

The thread viewtopic.php?t=27641 discussion morphed a bit to discuss early model units being available late in the game. (i.e. It started with a complain of bonus SE units often being too weak for the time period they were awarded.)

Therefore I ask, Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?

Did PII's actually get put into the field in 44, or did remaining PII's get scrapped for raw material to build PIV's?

Eliminating the availability (late in the game) of early units makes sense. Therefore an 'option' button (default off) of "Include units made obsolete"

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:22 pm

asrn wrote:The thread viewtopic.php?t=27641 discussion morphed a bit to discuss early model units being available late in the game. (i.e. It started with a complain of bonus SE units often being too weak for the time period they were awarded.)

Therefore I ask, Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?

Did PII's actually get put into the field in 44, or did remaining PII's get scrapped for raw material to build PIV's?

Eliminating the availability (late in the game) of early units makes sense. Therefore an 'option' button (default off) of "Include units made obsolete"

Most "Obsolete" tanks were modified for othe rroles...used to make SPATs SPAGs etc. AFAIK the Panzer II was converted for a recon role

Xerkis · Post by **Xerkis** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:46 pm

Horseman wrote:Most "Obsolete" tanks were modified for othe rroles...used to make SPATs SPAGs etc. AFAIK the Panzer II was converted for a recon role

Oh now why did you have to say that?
Now someone will ask that shouldn’t PzII be able to “upgrade” in to a recon.

It would be sort of nice to filter out the old stuff when you are on the purchase screen.

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:09 pm

Xerkis wrote:
Horseman wrote:Most "Obsolete" tanks were modified for othe rroles...used to make SPATs SPAGs etc. AFAIK the Panzer II was converted for a recon role
Oh now why did you have to say that?
Now someone will ask that shouldn’t PzII be able to “upgrade” in to a recon.

It would be sort of nice to filter out the old stuff when you are on the purchase screen.

Agree with that last bit, no matter how tight your prestige you'll never want to build a Panzer II late war!

monkspider · Post by **monkspider** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:47 pm

I actually appreciate that we have access to all the old units. I am looking forward to trying to make it through a campaign with only 1939 equipment.

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:59 pm

monkspider wrote:I actually appreciate that we have access to all the old units. I am looking forward to trying to make it through a campaign with only 1939 equipment.

How far did you get? Cant imagine getting past Russia with 39 equipment

monkspider · Post by **monkspider** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:01 pm

I haven't tried it yet, it is on my to do list though.

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:06 pm

monkspider wrote:I haven't tried it yet, it is on my to do list though.

Good luck when you do try it!

MartyWard · Post by **MartyWard** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:37 pm

I think only my opponent should be able to buy obsolete equipment. In fact they should be REQUIRED to buy it!

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:40 pm

monkspider wrote:I actually appreciate that we have access to all the old units. I am looking forward to trying to make it through a campaign with only 1939 equipment.

See, this here is totally illogical and absolutely insane, but it also sounds like it could be a lot of fun and a very interesting challenge. The last thing we want to do is cramp on creativity and fun, even if they are quite 'outside the box'.

Perhaps a few expiration dates on some of the SE equipment then, just so we don't have people awarded a IIIF for Bagration.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:58 pm

In the original , I often purchased obsolete tanks in lieu of recon type vehicles . Lacking the recon ability sure, but used em to pick off crippled enemies, sneak into unguarded cities, as they were cheap and had ok stats. Better, if they survided long enough and had some experiance, upgrade to a panther

I cant imagine getting past France with only 39 equip, let alone late war Russian battles but it would be fun to try !

monkspider · Post by **monkspider** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:38 pm

MartyWard wrote:I think only my opponent should be able to buy obsolete equipment. In fact they should be REQUIRED to buy it!

Thank you! And I am glad that Kerensky appreciates the insanity of it all.

It seems pretty doable honestly. One interesting aspect is that it would be quite essential to try to maximize experience to try to get every stat boost that you can. The only scenario that I think would be a bit of a bear would be the USA scenarios. Trying to beat the mass Pershings on US Mid West with only Panzer II's and 38's would be quite difficult, but I think it could be possible with prudent use of strategic bombers and mass attack. It will at least be interesting to see how it goes. I will be sure to let the forum know of my findings.

asrn · Post by **asrn** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:33 pm

Just make it an 'option' you can turn on, for those 'absurdists' who want to do things wacky.

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:20 am

Well they used PZII's in July 1943 in Operation Zitadell.

I'm sure you can find more instances.

Xerkis · Post by **Xerkis** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:29 am

I suppose you will use whatever you can get a hold of at the time. If you can get 4 or 5 PZII for the price of one Tiger II – it could be just as intimidating coming over the horizon towards you.

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:46 am

Xerkis wrote:I suppose you will use whatever you can get a hold of at the time. If you can get 4 or 5 PZII for the price of one Tiger II – it could be just as intimidating coming over the horizon towards you.

Well untill the Russian tank crews work out the "hoarde" of tanks coming towards them only have a 20mm Cannon!

impar · Post by **impar** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:57 am

Kerensky wrote:Perhaps a few expiration dates on some of the SE equipment then, just so we don't have people awarded a IIIF for Bagration.

That.

Molve · Post by **Molve** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:23 am

Remember an important point:

Just because a unit has "expired" doesn't mean it can't be featured in a scenario. It ONLY means you can't "upgrade" to it or buy one new using prestige.

I'm sure you can find instances where an army was hard pressed and had to make do with whatever was available, and sometimes even with success!

But then assign those units as auxiliary units (you can easily add them in the scenario designer - just uncheck the "include only units available in this scenario" checkbox)!

I fully respect the ability for scenarios to include obsolete equipment.

But that doesn't mean units shouldn't be expired and become unavailable for your core units.

As I said in the other thread*, there's no reason to be stingy. Feel free to set generous expiration dates in general (though not for SE units), but 1946 or even 1944 is in many instances way too generous!

*) Link: viewtopic.php?p=256189#256189

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:28 am

Well we don't want to delay this upcoming patch any more than we already have, but I can all but assure this will be addressed in a follow up patch.

Molve · Post by **Molve** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:04 am

Kerensky wrote:Well we don't want to delay this upcoming patch any more than we already have, but I can all but assure this will be addressed in a follow up patch.

Sounds promising!

(I fully understand you can't - and shouldn't - try to fix everything in a single patch)

Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?

Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?

Re: Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?

Re: Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?

Re: Should 'early war' units be available late in the war?