Restricted Zone

[imanfasil]

Is the restricted zone checked at the beginning of a unit's move (I am in or not in one this turn) or is it judged constantly? A unit wheeling at some point mid-wheel comes within 2" of a unit - does it have to immediately stop wheeling and obey rules for the Restriced Zone?

Thanks,
James

[zoltan]

We play that the RZ influence is continuous.

[imanfasil]

So in this situation:




If those units are facing directly up and down about 2" away... lined up perfectly to be side edge to side edge, niether can wheel away from each other? Once you move a couple millimeters your base will have gone from parralell with the enemy to being in front of him (in his Restricted Zone) meaning you are unable to finish that wheel and have to either stop or start wheeling back towards them... but since your front corner is not in front of him (it was perfectly parrallel and has now wheeled away from him) you cannot even wheel towards him as that would remove you from his RZ. This will occur if you are more than 2" away as well, just later in the wheel.

This feels icky, especially if I have another unit beside me who is staring at my opposite from this example. Essentially within a short distance a unit is locking down not only the unit lined up across from it but the unit to each side as those units aren't allowed to wheel.

[gozerius]

So charge. Charges aren't affected by restricted zones.
Or don't let the enemy get so close to you.

[imanfasil]

I can't charge, I have allies fighting the enemy to the front already. Unless I'm blind (which is possible), being engaged doesn't turn off a restricted zone. I am not sure how one keeps the enemy away from his main battleline and also uses said battleline to crush his enemies in melee!

I'm not looking for a way not to fight, I am questioning one unit's ability to pin 3 who now have no way of responding to threatened flanks.

[philqw78]

So in this situation:

Could we have a better diagram?

[imanfasil]

Pretend you have two units that are in a battline together. Slide one forwards 2" and turn it 180. Your inside base edges would be touching still if you hadn't moved. That is the position of the two opposed units.

[philqw78]

Then yes, if one of the BG began to wheel away it would become pinned at some point. If it began to wheel towards it would pin the other BG without itself being pinned.

[philqw78]

If your one BG pinning 3 was something like this



._

Currently neither of the outer are pinned

If either of the outer wheel away they do not put their rear corners in front of since the centre one is in the way and they shift to avoid friends.

If you moved the centre first then the rear of the other would go in front of if they wheeled away but it would be difficult to get it within 2 MU.

Either of the outer could wheel inwards to also pin and not be opinned themselves

Friends facing down
Enemy facing up

[imanfasil]

Do you really shift to avoid friends in the wheeling scenario? I thought it was just part of the rules that you can essentially wheel a corner through your own troops to allow wheeling out of line which would otherwise be impossible. I didn't think you would shift over and then wheel.

[muz177]

We play that the RZ influence is continuous.

so a LH bg can't zap past an enemy unit if it encroaches within 2MU at some time on that move?

Muz

[gozerius]

That's how we play it.

[zoltan]

We play that the RZ influence is continuous.

so a LH bg can't zap past an enemy unit if it encroaches within 2MU at some time on that move?

Muz

My reading of sentence one of the first bullet on page 74 is that if at any time an enemy BG enters the 2MU RA, it becomes affected by the RA constraints. I don't see anything in the RAW that suggests that RA test is only applied at the start or end of an enemy BG's movement.

[nikgaukroger]

My reading of sentence one of the first bullet on page 74 is that if at any time an enemy BG enters the 2MU RA, it becomes affected by the RA constraints. I don't see anything in the RAW that suggests that RA test is only applied at the start or end of an enemy BG's movement.

Correct.

[ShrubMiK]

And stop to think a moment about what would happen "in real life".

It's okay for us to go with sword reach of the enemy without worryinh about being stabbed, because he couldn't stabus at the start of the turn and is therefore asleep whilst we move past him?

[hazelbark]

Do you really shift to avoid friends in the wheeling scenario? I thought it was just part of the rules that you can essentially wheel a corner through your own troops to allow wheeling out of line which would otherwise be impossible. I didn't think you would shift over and then wheel.

there is a specifc section on 1/2 base shifts to avoid friends in the lime green section.

[bbotus]

the lime green section

which is page 45, 2nd bullet. A shift and wheel is OK but not a double wheel (last paragraph on the page).

[philqw78]

Do you really shift to avoid friends in the wheeling scenario? I thought it was just part of the rules that you can essentially wheel a corner through your own troops to allow wheeling out of line which would otherwise be impossible. I didn't think you would shift over and then wheel.

there is a specifc section on 1/2 base shifts to avoid friends in the lime green section.

There was a long thread about this some time ago. On many occassions the wheeling troops cannot shift.



If tries to wheel out of the line it cannot shift so therefore cannot wheel according to the rules. Though all the authors agreed it should be able to, and seemingly forgot to put it in the FAQ. Unfortunate, since I was asked at the weekend.

[bbotus]

What I remember is has to be able to wheel far enough for the back corner to clear the friends to get out of the line. I probably remember the thread wrong but it keeps me out of that silly area where unrealistic base depths exert too much control over movement. Author intent is good enough for me.

[bbotus]

Found the thread on wheeling out of the center of a BL:
viewtopic.php?t=8919

Interesting, Phil, you were on the author side on that one.

The rules don't say that troops can't wheel out of line. They are, in fact, completely silent on the subject.

The rules say they can't interpenetrate troops they can't interpenetrate. However, as Phil and Gozerius have pointed out, troops wheeling out of line don't impinge on the unit next to them, because each man in the end file does not start wheeling until he reaches the original front of the formation. Hence no interpenetration is in fact required.

Sure, you can argue that they do interpenetrate, because the troops are on rigid rectangular bases, but that would be silly, wouldn't it - because we know that wheeling troops don't stay in a rectangular formation, and in any case, the troops only fill a fraction of the base depth anyway.

I don't really see a problem as long as the BG clears the adjacent BG at the end of the move. (And that is only because it would cause issues to have BGs overlapping at the end of a move).
And Simon did post complete agreement.

A clarification would seem more appropriate than an erratum. (Assuming that Simon and Terry agree).

And Simon did post complete agreement.

And now I see how I came up with the use of the term 'silly' and 'unrealistic base depths'. Funny how the memory works.