reinforcing units

[Kriegsheld]

It would be really helpful to be able to reinforce units in single increments rather than having to bring them back to full strength. The incremental approach is already available for overstrengthening. Might this option be considered for strengths 1-10 as well in the next version of the game?

[Xerkis]

I know this was discussed someplace before… but I can’t find the thread now. Sorry.


I for one like the idea though.

[Kerensky]

This issue came up several times during the BETA, and it was determined to ultimately have an extremely marginal affect on game play and that many people said they had no interest in using such a system.

That said, however, we do recognize that some people do want it, so it's something we may add at some point as an optional feature.

[TheGrayMouser]

Thing is though, you lose a whole turn to do so, whether its 1 or 9 sp's replenished. Cant really see how this would be too useful except in a few ultra unique situations.

Now, if yu were ONLY allowed to heal 2-3 sp's at a time, that would certainly add quite a bit of challenge to the game

[Xerkis]

Now, if yu were ONLY allowed to heal 2-3 sp's at a time, that would certainly add quite a bit of challenge to the game

Wow! I think that is another one of the great ideas I would both like and dislike at the same time.

[Kriegsheld]

I agree the situations where you really need this feature are rare, but they can be pretty important. Suppose you have a unit that is probably a little too weak to withstand an attack, but you also need to purchase another unit for some other situation. Currently, you might be forced to choose one or the other if you don't have enough prestige to fully reinforce the weak unit and still purchase a new one. This can be especially important when you are dealing with expensive units. A good three strength tank can survive most attacks if it can be increased to 6 strength, while increasing it to 10 strength might be wasteful and it might eliminate the chance to purchase some other unit that you really need. The biggest hassle I see is that you might have to click multiple times on each unit during the deployment phase in order to get them to the strength you need. But now that I think about it, that can still be useful. I have had numerous situations where I initially deployed a weak unit because I needed to purchase something else. I then used prestige I gained during the game to reinforce that weak unit. There have been times when I wished I could have added a couple strength to a weak unit before deploying it. I might have actually been able to use it before I lost a turn reinforcing it later.

[Razz1]

You haven't played a balanced MP game where you need it.

A good map will have you short on prestige.

Even in a campaign there are times when prestige is limited.

A control click to choose the reinforcement would be nice.

[OmegaMan1]

I agree with Razz, there are certain times (particularly in MP games) when it would be nice to parcel out limited prestige points to multiple units rather than having to dump all available points into a single unit. As Kerensky said, it would be nice to see this added as an optional rule in a future installment of the game.

[rezaf]

I'd like to have basically the opposite (though the ideas are not mutually exclusive) - a button on the deployment screen that allows you to get ALL units in the pool fully repaired and overstrengthed with a single click, displaying the prestige cost when hovering over it.
A set of button with different options (Std. or Elite Replacements? Overstr. or merely fully repair? etc) would be even better, but I've played many a campaign scenario where, in the deployment screen, I fully stocked all my units with Elite Reinforcements, and that meant individually clicking on 30 units, then clicking to get them to Str10, then clicking once for each point of overstr.
This can easily amount to a hundred clicks or more...
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rezaf

[Molve]

I think this is a much more pressing issue.

The best solution would be if you could mark certain units to tell the game "for these units, I want to preserve experience" or "for these units, I want maximum overstrength".

Then, you could skip all those clicks altogether.

Instead, you simply deploy your (battered and damaged) units, and exit deployment.

At this stage the computer automatically buys replacements for all your units:
1) First, it clicks elite reinforcements until the experience cap for units you want maximum overstrength
2) Second, it clicks elite reinforcements once for units you want experience preserved
3) Last, it clicks regular reinforcements for all remaining units (since this costs nothing; why would you ever want to deploy a unit which is still wounded)
Of course, these markings should then be retained throughout the campaign (and can be changed at each deployment phase), following the unit (through upgrades of equipment, etc).

Ideally, as you're marking units you get a second prestige counter going down so you can see what you can afford and how much prestige you will have left when the scenario starts.

At the very least, have the game auto-reinforce substrength units with regulars. This saves you a substantial amount of clicks, and ensures you aren't forgetting a unit.

[Kerensky]

Phew, lots of points.

First: Why not buy your desired unit first, then spend that little bit of left over prestige to overstrength your 3 to a 6...? Is that not the same result as manually going from 3 to 6, and then buying?

Second: The idea of limited prestige multiplayer maps is tricky, because they often end up being limited in the options presented to the players. That said, there are an abundance of campaigns scenarios that are playable as multiplayer maps which have relatively large forces with somewhat reduced prestige amounts. And of course, there's the freedom for custom content too.

Third: I agree all that clicking is obnoxious, but there are hot keys and they really do help remedy this problem. Especially if you depress elite reinforcement hot key, a unit will just zip from up 1 to 15, and if u keep it depressed, you can just click on your next unit and that one too will go right up to max overstrength very quickly, and so on and so forth.

[rezaf]

Third: I agree all that clicking is obnoxious, but there are hot keys and they really do help remedy this problem. Especially if you depress elite reinforcement hot key, a unit will just zip from up 1 to 15, and if u keep it depressed, you can just click on your next unit and that one too will go right up to max overstrength very quickly, and so on and so forth.

But it should be very easy to implement an option to max out all units, so why not add it?
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rezaf

[Kerensky]

Right off the top of my head... how will the game behave if the player does not have enough prestige to fulfill the request? This will need to be answered. Somehow I doubt people will be very enthusiastic about how the game suddenly decided to switch over to normal replacements for the bottom 1/3 of your units because you ran out of prestige.

That's just for starters.

[rezaf]

Right off the top of my head... how will the game behave if the player does not have enough prestige to fulfill the request? This will need to be answered. Somehow I doubt people will be very enthusiastic about how the game suddenly decided to switch over to normal replacements for the bottom 1/3 of your units because you ran out of prestige.

That's just for starters.

Naturally, the button would be in a disabled state if you lacked the prestige to select it.
UI design 101.
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rezaf

[TheGrayMouser]

Hmm, I am still having a hard time seeing how this could really be usefull in game. A unit that is at two strength and purposfully strengthened only to 5 or 6 is still weak and going to be a target of your opponent, AI or humanoid. Also , how did such a unit get that weak in the ist place? Likly it is in the front lines, possibly adjacent to multiple enemies and cant restength anyway. But even if not , slightly strengthing it and losing an entire move to do so seems to be a sure way to get it destroyed. The solution is to "run away" with said unit so you can fully heal it later, if possible/needed.

Also , how would you reconcile the fact that , currently , a unit can restrengthen if it is only adjacent to one enemy , but not fully...... If using a "partial option" and in the same situation, would there have to be a "partial of a partial" rule implemented???

[MartyWard]

Hmm, I am still having a hard time seeing how this could really be usefull in game. A unit that is at two strength and purposfully strengthened only to 5 or 6 is still weak and going to be a target of your opponent, AI or humanoid. Also , how did such a unit get that weak in the ist place? Likly it is in the front lines, possibly adjacent to multiple enemies and cant restength anyway. But even if not , slightly strengthing it and losing an entire move to do so seems to be a sure way to get it destroyed. The solution is to "run away" with said unit so you can fully heal it later, if possible/needed.

Also , how would you reconcile the fact that , currently , a unit can restrengthen if it is only adjacent to one enemy , but not fully...... If using a "partial option" and in the same situation, would there have to be a "partial of a partial" rule implemented???

What you could have is a number of 1 or 2 strength units you wanted to make sure weren't eliminated this turn and a limited amount of prestige. That's about the only time I can see it being helpful.

[Xerkis]

I’m sure we can – and already have – come up with some reasons on when you might want to use this option – I know I have a few where it would have been nice.
But beating that old drum again … Historically, how did replacements work? Every time a unit was low in numbers and replacements came, the unit wasn’t filled to its max again. Especially while it was in the field. Replacements came in and assigned where the command saw the need (or along those lines). You get a pool of replacements (in the game, prestige points) and distribute them where needed (in the game, the proposed one click at a time idea).

…….. At least this is how I see it.

[TheGrayMouser]

I’m sure we can – and already have – come up with some reasons on when you might want to use this option – I know I have a few where it would have been nice.
But beating that old drum again … Historically, how did replacements work? Every time a unit was low in numbers and replacements came, the unit wasn’t filled to its max again. Especially while it was in the field. Replacements came in and assigned where the command saw the need (or along those lines). You get a pool of replacements (in the game, prestige points) and distribute them where needed (in the game, the proposed one click at a time idea).

…….. At least this is how I see it.

Depends on the nation. If i recall correctly Germany, Britain would keep units on line until combat inneffective and then pulled then to a quiet sector to bring em back up to strength. The US, Russia would keep a unit in line for the course , dribbling in replacements from rear echelon areas as available. This is why some US Divisions late war could count casualty rates for certain periods of time as 150 , 200 or even higher % !

[Xerkis]

I’m sure we can – and already have – come up with some reasons on when you might want to use this option – I know I have a few where it would have been nice.
But beating that old drum again … Historically, how did replacements work? Every time a unit was low in numbers and replacements came, the unit wasn’t filled to its max again. Especially while it was in the field. Replacements came in and assigned where the command saw the need (or along those lines). You get a pool of replacements (in the game, prestige points) and distribute them where needed (in the game, the proposed one click at a time idea).

…….. At least this is how I see it.

Depends on the nation. If i recall correctly Germany, Britain would keep units on line until combat inneffective and then pulled then to a quiet sector to bring em back up to strength. The US, Russia would keep a unit in line for the course , dribbling in replacements from rear echelon areas as available. This is why some US Divisions late war could count casualty rates for certain periods of time as 150 , 200 or even higher % !

Exactly my point.
If different countries did it different ways – then way not give that option to the player. If you want to replace them to full strength then go ahead – if not, then you don’t have to.

[TheGrayMouser]

I have no issue if this was an option you could set when starting a new campaign, but not one that is there any time you want it (too tempting) I feel it could likly make the game easier by the optimization a player could do, wheras the poor AI wouldnt get any use out of it.