Have to agree.rezaf wrote:Thus, in my opinion, you should ALWAYS receive at least a partial refund of the unit you send back to the HQ for reassignment.
Scenario Setup: Upgrading Units by downgrading them first.
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(This is probably best discussed in a separate thread, so let me merely make a short reply)rezaf wrote:Like I wrote elsewhere, I find the entire model-line system silly to begin with and will throw it out in my mod(s), eventually.
The idea of prestige is not that you buy spare parts with it someplace and assemble one PzIV variant into another, imo.
Instead you use your influence to request equipment from a superior, who will grant your requests based on your prestige - but that'll only get you so far (hence your prestige decreasing when you "buy" something).
In other words, even if you make one of the (very few) exchanges where you swap an older model of something with a slightly retrofitted newer model, this, in effect, means sending back your old units to HQ, where they'll be redeployed, and receiving the new units in exchange.
Whether you swap a PzIVD with a PzIVE or a PzIA with a Panther D is irrelevant, the process is the same.
Thus, in my opinion, you should ALWAYS receive at least a partial refund of the unit you send back to the HQ for reassignment.
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rezaf
I might be wrong, but I never thought of the "unit family" rule as assembling one PzIV variant into another. Instead I interpreted the discount as encouragement to stick to familiar guns, instead of upgrading into a completely new and unfamiliar model. In effect, as long as you stick to PzIVs, you get much more for your money. Your crews manage to wring much more out of the hardware due to familiarity and experience.
I am aware that the very nature of the game (small scale; few core slots) strongly encourage you to upgrade into the best units to create a super-strong super-elite core, but that this family discount is a nice touch for those who want a more "real" game experience (where PzIVs always outnumber Tigers and Panthers, no matter which front you're on)
However, without unit families, there's no reason to not jump from PzIV to Tiger to Panther to Tiger (II) again (assuming you can afford that many switches)...
Then a better solution would be to subtract XP whenever you switch to a different line of tanks.
It still should not be much XP - I can't imagine switching from a PzIVH to a Panther is THAT much different, though some difference is undoubtedly there, so maybe losing 50 XP or something could be reasonable.
Do you really think switching from a Panther to a Tiger involves re-learning everything completely from step one, as having to pay the full unit price implies?
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rezaf
It still should not be much XP - I can't imagine switching from a PzIVH to a Panther is THAT much different, though some difference is undoubtedly there, so maybe losing 50 XP or something could be reasonable.
Do you really think switching from a Panther to a Tiger involves re-learning everything completely from step one, as having to pay the full unit price implies?
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rezaf
I think we all need to remember PC is a game first, a reality simulator a (distant) second.
If we make prestige costs more "realistic" and make Panthers less expensive, we definitely need to bring in a full manufacturing simulation subsystem...
My point is, the costs need to be balanced for the game first and foremost. Making actual sense (either logically or historically) needs to take a back seat here.
If we make prestige costs more "realistic" and make Panthers less expensive, we definitely need to bring in a full manufacturing simulation subsystem...
My point is, the costs need to be balanced for the game first and foremost. Making actual sense (either logically or historically) needs to take a back seat here.
Well, but the entire model line system was introduced because the devs felt it made more sense that way, either logically or historically.
In PG, there were no model lines.
Which is my whole point, PG had good reason to abstract this away.
You might also note that I wrote "partial" in my earlier post.
If you trade away a unit that cost you 500 for 400 to buy another unit that costs 600, you still lost 100 on the old unit (can be reasoned as you familarity effect, if you want to), but at least the fact that you sent back the expensive 500 unit gets accounted for properly - instead of 600 you pay only 400 for the new unit.
Now, you always pay full when switching to another model line, which - in my opinion - makes no sense whatsoever.
But like I wrote, it's possible for me to mod this away, so I can sort of live with the current system...
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rezaf
In PG, there were no model lines.
Which is my whole point, PG had good reason to abstract this away.
You might also note that I wrote "partial" in my earlier post.
If you trade away a unit that cost you 500 for 400 to buy another unit that costs 600, you still lost 100 on the old unit (can be reasoned as you familarity effect, if you want to), but at least the fact that you sent back the expensive 500 unit gets accounted for properly - instead of 600 you pay only 400 for the new unit.
Now, you always pay full when switching to another model line, which - in my opinion - makes no sense whatsoever.
But like I wrote, it's possible for me to mod this away, so I can sort of live with the current system...
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rezaf
It would be sufficient for the game to remember the unit type of a certain unit what it was before the upgrading/scenario placement screen comes up.
And only AFTER the full placing has taken place (for example in turn 1) of the scenario the new unit values and costs would be "written".
That way no loophole would exist and it would not be confusing to players.
And only AFTER the full placing has taken place (for example in turn 1) of the scenario the new unit values and costs would be "written".
That way no loophole would exist and it would not be confusing to players.
We actually did have this in BETA, but it was wildly, I mean HUUUGELY, unpopular and many people actually thought it was just a bug.rezaf wrote:Then a better solution would be to subtract XP whenever you switch to a different line of tanks.
It still should not be much XP - I can't imagine switching from a PzIVH to a Panther is THAT much different, though some difference is undoubtedly there, so maybe losing 50 XP or something could be reasonable.
Do you really think switching from a Panther to a Tiger involves re-learning everything completely from step one, as having to pay the full unit price implies?
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rezaf
So yea, a solution? Maybe. A popular or 'better' one? Tested and failed.
If there was a perfect answer and a perfect system... everyone would agree on it and we would implement it. That doesn't exist, so we're trying to make as many people as possible happy. For those that aren't, as you said yourself, there's always modding.
Even so, with more official Panzer Corps material and content planned, we have some ideas up our sleeves too.
Oh, I don't really like the idea, either. Like I wrote, I think the entire concept of model lines is silly and should be thrown out...Kerensky wrote:We actually did have this in BETA, but it was wildly, I mean HUUUGELY, unpopular and many people actually thought it was just a bug.
So yea, a solution? Maybe. A popular or 'better' one? Tested and failed.
I hope Rudankorts chronical absence from the forums means this planned material and content is already being worked on...Kerensky wrote:Even so, with more official Panzer Corps material and content planned, we have some ideas up our sleeves too.
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rezaf
