Counters and clutter

[garyb]

I was really struck tonight by how much rubbish was around the troops, during a melee phase we had counters for the various cohesion levels and dice behind the units to track hits. Add this to the general clutter of measuring sticks and such and it was largely irrellevant how pretty the troops or terrain were. Purely an aesthetic thing but the visual side of the hobby is important on some level.

I was initially horrified by the counters tracking cohesion level, then not so bothered as I played a few games. Now it's swinging back to finding them a necessary evil, I want to "see" the battle in the positions of the elements rather than have to overlay the information the little counters mean on top of the info I get from the figures, that sturdy looking block of Sp over there change dramatically when I modify my mental image to take into account the little red token behind them. And what does it mean when I see a yellow token on someone else's table?

[neilhammond]

I'm experimenting with using single figures on a small round base (1 & 2 pence coins) to represent counters - I use a officer on a smaller 1 pence coin to reprsent disrupted and a standard bearer on a bigger 2 pence coin to represent fragmented. Eventually I'll try for a marker set per army.

The bases are also coloured differently (yellow ochre and red ochre respectively, but with some flocking so it doesn't look too bare). I don't mark routing as it's usually self-evident.

The only problems are 1) remembering to move the figures with the unit; and 2) if you use the same marker system for your opponent the figures aren't necessarily correct.

Undoubtably the table does get more cluttered as the game proceeds, but at least it is with additional figurines rather than coloured markers.

What I would like to see is a standard colour scheme (for figurine bases or counters) to indicate the unit state (e.g. yellow = DSR, red = FRGM). At least we'd then have a universal standard.

Regards,
Neil

[thefrenchjester]

same colour scheme for me
yellow :DISR
red :FRG
counters : 1cm x 1cm
only to learn , after we'll try with vexillum , standard,or dracos on little coins , less sad than marching with wounded and deads at the rear of the units ;

thefrenchjester

[thefrenchjester]

Hi ,

an idea to create beautiful counters and a universal colour code what do you think about this ?

SILVER counters for DISR
BRAZEN counters for FRG

of course we reserve gold to pay the mercs of our armies

we can use half coins on little bases half buried in the basetex like a treasure , more ideas to come .......

thefrenchjester " sentimental merc. "

[jre]

We currently use small wooden cubes (5 mm a side). Yellow for disruption, red for FRG and black for broken. When a unit loses a cohesion step we add two cubes and take one back at the rally bolster phase to remember that they cannot try that turn. Those BGs with only one counter and a general roll.

Not very obstrusive and the color code is pretty obvious. And we have stopped arguing whether that decrease was this turn or the previous one.

Two sided counters would do the same, but the small cubes are less obstrusive.

Most people at the demo liked the appeareance of the battle, counters included, mostly due to the group movement.

José

[malekithau]

Perhaps Litko or someone similar could develop some counters for this possibly with movement sticks etc? I use their yellow chickens to mark routing uints.

[pikey]

Rather than using counters why not simply make some blank bases, i.e. bases with no figures on, of normal frontage that have the same finish as the figure bases in your army.

There are probably numerous ways of showing the cohesion state using these blank bases but here's a few suggestions:

1. Swap one figure base in the BG for a blank base to show disrupted, and swap two figure bases in the BG for blank bases to show fragmented

or

2. Make pairs of bases, one with 1 boulder on to show disrupted and the other in the pair with 2 boulders on to show fragmented. Then swap one figure base out of the BG for a blank base with the appropriate number of boulders on to reflect the cohesion state
or

3. Make pairs of blank bases with two different depths; say 15mm and 30mm. Then swap one figure base in the BG for a 15mm deep base to show disrupted or a 30mm base to show fragmented

(The bases could of course be placed behind the BG as now but doing it this way is adding clutter?)

The point is, no matter what convention is adopted, using blank bases that match the existing bases in your army to show cohesion achieves the objective whilst:
a. not adding clutter to the battlefield
b. retaining the aesthetics of the BG and the battlefield
plus
c. it’s not difficult to make the bases (especially if you are basing an army anyway)
d. the cohesion information required is clearly visible

Damian

[thefrenchjester]

Hi ,
good idea to devellop on real games I'll try it next friday but seems really good at first reading

thefrenchjester " from figure basing to blank basing ( economic isn't it ? "

[garyb]

The counter issue came up again last night with my opponent having a completely different convention to mine. This isn't a big deal with a game once a week or so but I don't much fancy 6 different marking conventions in a weekend tournament.

Not a deal-breaker by any stretch but given that the system has the (IMO) unlovely cohesion levels couldn't we at least have a standardised system given that it's clear the counters will be used anyway? Or is the plan to leave that sort of thing to the tournament organisers?

Just so that I'm not complaining without putting up alternatives, wouldn't it be possible to have casualties more likely from combat and thus have the units effectiveness reduced by these casualties rather than the equally hideous minus one dice per N approach? Sure, you're not going to be able to bolster units back up once they head south but this has proved a minor side of the game so far.

[rbodleyscott]

We want to give players the choice of using counters or not. One of the diagrams in the published book will show 1 method of showing cohesion states without counters, and 2 different methods with counters (but not 6!).

I have little doubt that tournament organisers will specify a standard method for their tournaments.

It is our intention to support tournament organisers regarding such issues as counters, scoring systems etc., but via the web page (which is in preparation) rather than the rule book.

[nicofig]

Good idea. I think it's a good choice. When a organize some tournament in France, the players do like they want.