Breaking units

[garyb]

Really, really, really dislike the way units break.

The cohesion test itself, the new 6:1, with so many more dice being rolled the combats are less swingy but the CT's are a minefield. Roll snake-eyes and you've effectively got a hole in your line but it's not 1 element wide it's an entire unit. Starting to appreciate that the game is about forcing your opponent to take as many CT's as possible while minimising your own and waiting for the unfortunate rolls to come up eventually. Not as much fun as breaking through and folding up flanks.

Routing and pursuing, rarely are my units fighting 1-on-1 with enemy units so when units break I'm left with elements just hanging in space while my opponent dances away a general to rally his troops. These shock mouted that I had to test to hold before charging are now stuck because they've clipped a single element of a neighbouring unit. Surely I should have to roll to stop them going after their broken foe?!

Lack of recoils, there's no ebb and flow to a scrap and attacks don't push ahead byond their support and find themselves isolated in the same way.

[thefrenchjester]

HI Gary ,

the best way to accept the change in approach is to playtest extensively to understand the meaning and the contain of the rules FOG is a new concept totally different from DBM or other rule sets , give a try or more
if your opponent elite unit runs to your poor spearmen be sure he will win the combat , it's only a matter of time if the spearmen are lucky they can fight some turns , knowing that ,come with a battle group on his flank when the elite unit pursue the defeated spearmen it can save them from autobreak and can rout the enemy
I like to play dog armies ( average or poor troops don't afraid me ) I just know that I must be patient before any winning game in my favour but nevermind the most important is to have a good game fun and interesting to the last minute , a thing I find each time I play FOG
hoping you will change your vision of the game and have fun with it ;

thefrenchjester " if the kids are united ....... even they are poor ! "

[garyb]

the best way to accept the change in approach is to playtest extensively to understand the meaning and the contain of the rules FOG is a new concept totally different from DBM or other rule sets

I completely agree that only more games will give me a thorough understanding of the rules, I just think the games should be fun even if I don't completely know what I'm doing yet, in fact _especially_ if I don't know what I'm doing as there will be tons of new players picking it up and you want their experiences to be fun when their understanding is limited.

if your opponent elite unit runs to your poor spearmen be sure he will win the combat , it's only a matter of time if the spearmen are lucky they can fight some turns , knowing that ,come with a battle group on his flank when the elite unit pursue the defeated spearmen it can save them from autobreak and can rout the enemy

I think you missed my point, I know that there will be times that units break, I find the way it happens is a grind though. I'd rather remove elements until I autobreak than go through the pain of failing cohesion tests and sliding down the slippy slope of the cohesion levels.

[malekithau]

I like the grind to be honest. It represents, to me, how ancient combat was. Unless you mean it's a grind for you? FOG has brought me back to ancients and I am enjoying the games. The battle lines look real, the tactics are less rock/paper/scissors and generals have a real role to play.

I hate DBM with a passion.

[paulcummins]

There does seem to be some issue with breaking - we had the breaking from missile fire discussion a little while ago to add to the above.

just a thought - maybe it has to be the autobreak to go.

you can shoot and bash the enemy into useless-ness, but you still need to kill a load to get rid of them (cf the difficulty of getting past a broken command in DBM)

If you added to the death roll for broken troops it may work.

as I said just a thought, but the big loss from cohesion ruins a unit, but means the line may have some hope of holding, rather than game over.

Maybe an option to run/stay - run you get a chance of rallying if you get away, stay you get chopped to pieces, but hold the line.

[lawrenceg]

There does seem to be some issue with breaking - we had the breaking from missile fire discussion a little while ago to add to the above.

just a thought - maybe it has to be the autobreak to go.

you can shoot and bash the enemy into useless-ness, but you still need to kill a load to get rid of them (cf the difficulty of getting past a broken command in DBM)

If you added to the death roll for broken troops it may work.

as I said just a thought, but the big loss from cohesion ruins a unit, but means the line may have some hope of holding, rather than game over.

Maybe an option to run/stay - run you get a chance of rallying if you get away, stay you get chopped to pieces, but hold the line.

No, breaking (historically) is entirely cohesion loss and is precipitated by immediate threat and the perception of the chances of escape, rather than casualties. Close combat generally resulted in very few casualties. The big numbers got killed in the rout. Shooting is percieved as less threatening, because the enemy is some distance away and you can cower behind your shield. Troops will therefore stick around for a long time, over which the casualties can build up to a high enough level to convince the targets that punishment for running away would be less dangerous than staying any longer.

This is why I think you should not be able to shoot someone to broken, except by autobreak. The current situation for close combat is correct, IMO.