Moderators: terrys, Slitherine Core, FOGR Design
If two bases are of equal priority to remove, the player losing a base chooses which to remove.deadtorius wrote:Perhaps we need an author to make a ruling if you are directly in front of an enemy target and they have to remove a base, as all bases are equal distance, which base you should remove first. Otherwise we will have to be satisfied with our opponents removing those pikes to keep the shooting dice up.
Were you doing this right? I didn't think rear support meant the infantry were in the same place as the guns, just that they counted that way but only in close combat. I would have thought, based on target priority, the reiters would shoot all their dice at the artillery. The artillery would have their dice back at the reiters, and only the shot that weren't behind the artillery.Blathergut wrote:Or:
The 3-wide, 2-deep reiters were lined up more or less directly with 2 bases of artillery/a file of shot and a file of pike "behind" and a file of shot not behind the artillery. For all purposes, is the pike & shot unit not considered at the front edge of the artillery? The 3 wide reiters shot at the 3-wide pike and shot. The other reiter bases not opposite my "exposed" file of shot would not have been able to shoot at it.
So 4 dice went in on the pike and shot BG, all equal distance from the bases. So, nearest obeying the proportional rule would be a shot or a pike therefore my choice.
Thanks for the pointer to the other thread. I would suggest it does merit an erratum/clarification because, while logical, I don't see anything in the rules as written that says the infantry is at the same position forward as the artillery in any situation other than in close combat. If there is a place in the rules where that is said, I'd be happy to go with that. So I'd like to request either a pointer to the text in the rules, or an erratum.quackstheking wrote:This situation has been discussed many times before on the rules thread. See:-
viewtopic.php?t=26580&highlight=artillery
The foot are assumed to be level with the front of the artillery so the firing unit (reiters) chooses whether to target the guns or the supporting foot unit. The foot elements behind the guns cannot shoot but if there is an overlapping element armed with distance weapons, then it can shoot.
In the original question as the reiters are shooting at the foot and the pike and the shot are equal priorities, being assumed to be at the same distance, then the P&S owner can choose whether to lose a pike or shot base.
Don
It is in the combat section, because it has to be somewhere, but it says:footslogger wrote:I don't see anything in the rules as written that says the infantry is at the same position forward as the artillery in any situation other than in close combat. If there is a place in the rules where that is said, I'd be happy to go with that. So I'd like to request either a pointer to the text in the rules, or an erratum.
Artillery base depths vastly over-represent their actual historical depth. Hence a battle group in a position to give rear support to artillery is treated for all purposes as if its front edge was in the position of the front edge of the artillery, except that the files actually providing rear support cannot shoot.
Except shooting from artillery and close combat which give solid examples for base lose, the "Other Shooting" base removal is for some reason much more vague and therefore has been open to gamesmanship. Other shooting follows the "proportional loss rule."The problem is in the line "After the first base loss..." Now some players say if you have two equidistant formations (lets say 2 pike and 4 shot) and one causes a base loss on the other, most gamers will say, I'll lose a base of Pike since I can then keep shooting at full strength. However, is this proportional? Losing a Pike creates a ration of 4:1 shooters to Pike, losing a Shot creates a ratio of 3:2, closer in proportion to the original unit strength. What I see though, is gamers saying the proportionality starts AFTER the hypothetical FIRST base loss. So they pick the Pike and then two shot if more bases are removed from non artillery shooting.rbodleyscott wrote:If two bases are of equal priority to remove, the player losing a base chooses which to remove.deadtorius wrote:Perhaps we need an author to make a ruling if you are directly in front of an enemy target and they have to remove a base, as all bases are equal distance, which base you should remove first. Otherwise we will have to be satisfied with our opponents removing those pikes to keep the shooting dice up.
Actually, the rules add the proviso "consistent with the proportional loss rule". I've argued before that in this exact kind of situation the first loss must be a shot in order to complywiththe proportional loss rule. I was pretty much a lone voice crying in the widerness though.But the rules don't say 'most numerous' type is removed. Rules say "nearest base to shooters" which was all 3 foot bases. If anything, the centre pike base had more enemy close than either shot base.
Kevin is correct, the entire rule says the closest base which obeys proportional loss.deadtorius wrote:It was pointed out once before that you have to lose the closest base to the shooter (so likely a shot base), but in this case we were facing each other so it was Blatherguts choice of which base to lose.
