Moscow 1941, decisively speaking...

[ImaginaryStar]

Firstly, I want to say how exhilarating the scenario is, my thanks to the scenario's designer. The map has it all: dynamic, yet terrible Russian weather, heavy defenses, sense of urgency and pressure, massive battles...

Which brings me to my question. Is decisive victory at all possible in this operation? While in other scenarios the complete victory is always feasible, I cannot even remotely see how one can fit into the ruthless time-frame(trivial difficulty aside)?
Anyone managed to do so? If so, how did you achieve it?


Also, is there a "crirtical hit" chance upon attack in the game's mechanics? I just had a unit of six conscripts completely obliterate (10 damage!) a rugged, decorated, hero-toting, unit of Pioneers(by attacking them from the river into the city). It was not a surrender, but pure damage (needless to say, I was speechless).

[El_Condoro]

Also, is there a "crirtical hit" chance upon attack in the game's mechanics? I just had a unit of six conscripts completely obliterate (10 damage!) a rugged, decorated, hero-toting, unit of Pioneers(by attacking them from the river into the city). It was not a surrender, but pure damage (needless to say, I was speechless).

How is this even possible? I would have thought 6 damage would be the absolute most that it could do. Can someone confirm this case is possible, please?

[Razz1]

I have seen 10 and 8 damage before hand. It hardly ever happens.

After 3000 plus turns I have only seen this 3 times.

[rezaf]

Especially Pioneers, but also Paras are far too vulnerable for my tastes.
They have quite a bit less ground defense, which I presume is responsible for their doom.
I have NOT actuallly seen one being obliterated by six conscripts, but they frequently take HEAVY losses against attacks from mediocre units.
I stopped using them altogether and haven't missed them.
_____
rezaf

[DreadWing]

Also, is there a "crirtical hit" chance upon attack in the game's mechanics? I just had a unit of six conscripts completely obliterate (10 damage!) a rugged, decorated, hero-toting, unit of Pioneers(by attacking them from the river into the city). It was not a surrender, but pure damage (needless to say, I was speechless).

How is this even possible? I would have thought 6 damage would be the absolute most that it could do. Can someone confirm this case is possible, please?

I encountered a similar issue with my PzIV in the Low Countries. I've explained what happened in Kerensky's Video AAR for the Low Countries. (click here).

Also, in my experience, the AI has better dice rolls.

[rezaf]

Also, in my experience, the AI has better dice rolls.

It's extremely irritating that the combat predictions depict almost a best-case-scenario rather than the most probable result.
At least it seems to be this way to me.

Even disregarding rugged defense or "hidden" artillery support, it is SO FREQUENT that I get like a 4/0 prediction in my favor only to end up with a 1/1.

I'd really love to get a reseed-on-reload, so I can at least save-scumm my way around the most severe cases.
Being stuck with horrible result;bad result; averag result; horrible result; bad result can be extremely annoying. Best you can do is to waste an unimportant attack with a level bomber or whatnot, just to get to the next roll.
_____
rezaf

[Generalex]

It's extremely irritating that the combat predictions depict almost a best-case-scenario rather than the most probable result.
At least it seems to be this way to me.

My experience confirms that. And it is really annoying. It would be no problem if this happened once or twice but if every second result causes
really heavy casualties although the prediction was rather good it can become very frustrating.
i wrote this in my very first impressions thread but noone seemed to have the same issue so i thought that maybe
i am just an unlucky guy ^^

[Kaiser]

Also, is there a "crirtical hit" chance upon attack in the game's mechanics? I just had a unit of six conscripts completely obliterate (10 damage!) a rugged, decorated, hero-toting, unit of Pioneers(by attacking them from the river into the city). It was not a surrender, but pure damage (needless to say, I was speechless).

I know - at Kurst, I had an anit-tank gun attack across the river against my 13* SS hero-toting grenadiers and obliterate them...I said "WTF"??

In another campaign, in the low countries, a lone Dingo recon almost wiped out 3 panzer units including an SS unit. viewtopic.php?t=26009

[TheGrayMouser]

Especially Pioneers, but also Paras are far too vulnerable for my tastes.
They have quite a bit less ground defense, which I presume is responsible for their doom.
I have NOT actuallly seen one being obliterated by six conscripts, but they frequently take HEAVY losses against attacks from mediocre units.
I stopped using them altogether and haven't missed them.
_____
rezaf

Infantry use their close defence, not ground defence when fighting other infantry in close terrian like cities, most infantry has a close defence of 2.....
I personally see this as something that should be fixed.

Is it possible the unit in question surrendered vs having 10 strength points destroyed by a 6 point attack? ( which like others I thought would be impossible)?

[DreadWing]

In another campaign, in the low countries, a lone Dingo recon almost wiped out 3 panzer units including an SS unit. viewtopic.php?t=26009

That's exactly the unit that caused troubles to my PzIV as I said earlier. Misery loves company .

[Korrigan]

Also, in my experience, the AI has better dice rolls.

That's also my experience... very frustrating.

[willgamer]

If the random number generator isn't broken, it's certainly quirky, see...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2870266

[Fimconte]

I have seen 10 and 8 damage before hand. It hardly ever happens.

After 3000 plus turns I have only seen this 3 times.

That's odd, in USA East->West, I saw 10's all around when my Tiger II'+5atk hit Shermans.

As for the OP, I would never attack a unsuppressed target from a river. Doing so is madness.


P.S.

It's extremely irritating that the combat predictions depict almost a best-case-scenario rather than the most probable result.
At least it seems to be this way to me.

Even disregarding rugged defense or "hidden" artillery support, it is SO FREQUENT that I get like a 4/0 prediction in my favor only to end up with a 1/1.

I'd really love to get a reseed-on-reload, so I can at least save-scumm my way around the most severe cases.
Being stuck with horrible result;bad result; averag result; horrible result; bad result can be extremely annoying. Best you can do is to waste an unimportant attack with a level bomber or whatnot, just to get to the next roll.
_____
rezaf

Well you can still "save-scumm" with the method you mentioned. For example save before an attack, if it goes bad, reload and attack with a Strategic Bomber/Artillery, try again, if it goes bad, reload, use 2 Strategic Bombers/Artillery and see if you now get a better result.

Worst case scenario don't attack at all.

[rezaf]

Oh, I know, but it's kinda cumbersome.
The main purpose I'd be using save-cumming in PG would, however, be stuff that happens during the enemy turn.
If I have moved all my units and end the turn, and run into such quirky dice roll that allows a weak enemy unit to completely obliterate my 5 star Panther, this result is inevitable.
All I could do is load some way older save and redo my moves.
In PG, I'd probably just reload the save before I ended the turn and see my Panther shrug off the attack as it should.

The RNG should just ALWAYS reseed, like I think it was the case in PG, even if no dice rolls whatsoever are associated with a move you make - like when you move a unit, or even call in supply. Sometimes, when I did reload for whatever reason, it's kinda silly to know, ah, the first three assaults will not go so well, then there's be a pretty good one, then a horrible I'd best avoid etc.
There should be a checkbox or something for this in the game options - that way everybody is happy, those who are fine with the future already set in stone and those who want more randomness.

Being a programmer myself, I can only say: It should be very easy to implement, too.
_____
rezaf

[Horseman]

Oh, I know, but it's kinda cumbersome.
The main purpose I'd be using save-cumming in PG would, however, be stuff that happens during the enemy turn.
If I have moved all my units and end the turn, and run into such quirky dice roll that allows a weak enemy unit to completely obliterate my 5 star Panther, this result is inevitable.
All I could do is load some way older save and redo my moves.
In PG, I'd probably just reload the save before I ended the turn and see my Panther shrug off the attack as it should.

The RNG should just ALWAYS reseed, like I think it was the case in PG, even if no dice rolls whatsoever are associated with a move you make - like when you move a unit, or even call in supply. Sometimes, when I did reload for whatever reason, it's kinda silly to know, ah, the first three assaults will not go so well, then there's be a pretty good one, then a horrible I'd best avoid etc.
There should be a checkbox or something for this in the game options - that way everybody is happy, those who are fine with the future already set in stone and those who want more randomness.

Being a programmer myself, I can only say: It should be very easy to implement, too.
_____
rezaf

Just out of interest...you say you mainly use the save-cumming in PG to avoid the 'quirky' die roles that allow a weak enemy unit to destroy your str 5 Panther
Do you also reload when you get the 'quirky' die roll that allows your weak unit to finish of a strong enemy unit against the odds or do you take that as fortunes of war?

[rezaf]

Just out of interest...you say you mainly use the save-cumming in PG to avoid the 'quirky' die roles that allow a weak enemy unit to destroy your str 5 Panther
Do you also reload when you get the 'quirky' die roll that allows your weak unit to finish of a strong enemy unit against the odds or do you take that as fortunes of war?

Lol, you make it sound like I play that way all the friggin' time.
I played entire campaigns without using save-scumming even once, but occasionally, I saw fit to keep certain units alive no matter what - you could say for "flavour" reasons.
Do you really have any problem with me doing so in a strictly single-player environment, where all it affects is my personal enjoyment of the game?
_____
rezaf

[Horseman]

Just out of interest...you say you mainly use the save-cumming in PG to avoid the 'quirky' die roles that allow a weak enemy unit to destroy your str 5 Panther
Do you also reload when you get the 'quirky' die roll that allows your weak unit to finish of a strong enemy unit against the odds or do you take that as fortunes of war?

Lol, you make it sound like I play that way all the friggin' time.
I played entire campaigns without using save-scumming even once, but occasionally, I saw fit to keep certain units alive no matter what - you could say for "flavour" reasons.
Do you really have any problem with me doing so in a strictly single-player environment, where all it affects is my personal enjoyment of the game?
_____
rezaf

Absulotly not! I've been known to do it myself in the past (and I'm sure I will do so again in the future!) because hey we play these games for fun right?

I was just wondering really, mainly because I have done it in the past and done exactly what I described...reloaded for opponents turn because theres no way that T26 could knock out my Panthers then smiled and carried on when my weak ass infantry wipe out a T34 in the open because hey theres always luck in war right?

Anyway didn't mean to sound accusational or anything..like I said we play for fun and when you pay your money you can play anyway you like

[Generalex]

Anyway didn't mean to sound accusational or anything..like I said we play for fun and when you pay your money you can play anyway you like Very Happy

Except for Mp Games

I think nearly everyone has loaded a game only to save an important unit or at least a unit that has a place in his heart ^^

[Horseman]

Anyway didn't mean to sound accusational or anything..like I said we play for fun and when you pay your money you can play anyway you like Very Happy

Except for Mp Games

I think nearly everyone has loaded a game only to save an important unit or at least a unit that has a place in his heart ^^

Well mp games are obviosuly an exception....then you have to abide by honorable rules of fair play

And I'd be surprised if there was a single person who has never even once reloaded to "cheat" in a single player game of some sort (Pc or not!)

[ImaginaryStar]

As for the OP, I would never attack a unsuppressed target from a river. Doing so is madness.

I agree, that's why I didn't do it. It was the Conscript unit that managed to destroy my Vet Pioneers via the assault from the river into the city.

Also is why I will be replaying entire Stalingrad(lost three vet infantry units total there).