Battle of Muret 1213

[stockwellpete]

Especially for Frank, the luckiest dice-roller ever known to FOG.

EDIT: version 2 now available

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15461007/Battle ... 20PWv2.rar

[Micha63]

Hi ,here a few screenshots from the battle.
viewtopic.php?p=250199#250199
Thank you for the scenario.

[frankpowerful]

Especially for Frank, the luckiest dice-roller ever known to FOG.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15461007/Battle ... 20PWv1.rar

hmmm, frankly ( ) this doesn't sound like a compliment

[stockwellpete]

hmmm, frankly ( ) this doesn't sound like a compliment

It was meant to be a joke, Frank.

I have found a book on the Cathars today called "The Albigensian Crusade" and it is written by none other than Jonathan Sumption, the author of a massive and highly regarded work on the Hundred Years War. He wrote it in 1978 so it might be a bit dated, but it has a good map of the battlefield at Muret and 7 or 8 pages of text about the fighting. Sumption's basic argument is that the fighting was really between the mounted Crusader knights and sergeants and the mounted Aragonese and French (the Franco-Aragonese only had a 2:1 advantage). The foot soldiers on both sides were fairly inactive until the pursuit phase. A large contingent of Toulousians did attack Muret but they were massacred by the crusaders after the main conflict was over.

I also have found a translation of the near contemporary "Historia Albigensis", written by Peter of les Vaux-de-Cernay and that has more detail (e.g. the Count of Comminges was called Bernard ).

Anyway, this has a lot of implications for version 2 of this scenario. I know Micha is interested and so is Frank - I will try and get this done by Sunday as well.

[omarquatar]

Sumption's basic argument is that the fighting was really between the mounted Crusader knights and sergeants and the mounted Aragonese and French (the Franco-Aragonese only had a 2:1 advantage). The foot soldiers on both sides were fairly inactive until the pursuit phase. A large contingent of Toulousians did attack Muret but they were massacred by the crusaders after the main conflict was over.

indeed, though the definition franco-aragonese is misleading...the crusaders came from northern-central france, their opponents were some lords from southern france, helped by the king of aragon; not only the foot soldiers, but even the cowardly raymond VI of toulouse deserted the battlefield without a fight

[stockwellpete]

How would you describe them then, Frank? "Aragonese-Cathar" maybe? De Montfort's army can just be called "Crusaders", can't they?

[omarquatar]

How would you describe them then, Frank? "Aragonese-Cathar" maybe? De Montfort's army can just be called "Crusaders", can't they?

too difficult for me to propose the right definition in english
french historians would use "les Occitans" or "les méridionaux" i think; crusaders is right, of course

[stockwellpete]

Frank, new challenge (version 2) on system for you, usual password.

[stockwellpete]

Version 2 now available. All details from Jonathan Sumption's "The Albigensian Crusade" (1978).