What Heidi Did Next (Manchester)

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daveallen
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What Heidi Did Next (Manchester)

Post by daveallen »

Wow, 7th place! A big improvement on last year’s second to last (what would we do without timmy1?). That drubbing might have been disheartening, but actually I’d enjoyed the games so much I left Manchester determined to play much more FoGR. This year I can even be bothered to write a piece about what happened. Long time since I’ve done that.

Having seen how Swiss mercenaries performed in some of the games reported by Tim Porter I decided to try an army full of them. Their first outing at Rampage was mediocre, but they showed some potential. A few minor adjustments and I had 7 BGs ready to terrorise half of Europe:

Four armoured Keils: 10, 10, 14 Elites & 16 Superior.
6 LF Cb, 8 LF Arq, 4 LH Cb.

The ‘plan’ was simple: deploy the Keils two-deep so they could adjust for enemy positions and avoid Artillery, then rush forward. The Lights were to slow up any flank threats and maybe chew up some Dragoons or isolated Horse. Hardly worthy of being called a plan - K.I.S.S. indeed!

One slight hiccup was that after my first couple of games nobody at the club wanted to fight the Swiss, so I needed a practice game:

Game 0 Jonathan Smith ECW Parliamentarian (see game 2 for details)

Those of you following the ‘Practice Game’ thread might recognise Jonathan as the newbie from up north who needed some practice to familiarise himself with the rules. Boy did I fall for that one :oops: ! He may be new to FoGR, but he knows how to play a wargame. I got the initiative which, of course, meant Jonathan moved first. His Dragoons triple moved straight up to my Keils slowing them right down. Meanwhile, his carbine equipped Horse beat up my Lights in short order. After just over two hours it was obvious I was going to lose big time. We called it a day and headed for the draw with me praying for a seed!


Game 1 Lance Flint TYW French

Lance had 18 BGs including some Medium Guns, but no Carbine Horse (!), can't remember it in detail. Camps were in the centre(ish) in terrain. I placed three Keils two deep stretching from the centre to my right, with the 16 on the right in front of the 14 which was four deep, angled to go into the flank sector. The Arquebusiers were on the right flank and the LH and Crossbowmen covering the left.

There was nothing to stop my general advance across the table except the odd casualty to artillery. I quickly lost both LF BGs and my LH was isolated and harassed by two BGs of Horse, but able to skate out of the way and still get off the odd shot. The 16 charged and broke something, Dragoons (?), on the right and followed through onto some MF Musketeers in terrain. The MF broke on contact and the subsequent pursuit left the 16 an inch from more MF. Because they were still only two deep their flanks were exposed. On the left, the 10’s took some casualties from shooting before making contact. The furthest left was disrupted and down to seven bases, fell to fragmented and six on impact, and broke in melee. The next one was steady with eight bases, it beat the two 6-pax it hit and followed through onto Artillery. It then passed through the Art and turned to take control of it.

Before the 16 could charge the MF to its front some Horse threatened its flank. It was then charged front and flank by Horse and MF. After two rounds of melee both the Horse and MF were fragmented and the Swiss had recovered, only to be hit in the other flank by a French 6-pak. This was too much and they evaporated in the Melee.

Down by 8APs and the French Horse getting close to my camp. The broken 10 failed its first attempt to rally, but passed the second. It then recovered to steady in two JAPs whilst marching back towards the camp and the Horse that had reached it a turn too late to break the army. The Keil that had taken the guns was now being fired on and was soon reduced to five. Only 1 AP from breaking I thought it would be un-Swiss to lose a Keil to shooting without at least trying to charge so with only five bases left it ran into another 6-pak that was so shocked it lost on impact despite having a + (the wonders of re-rolling 1s, 2s & 3s) and broke in melee, its General also fell and its two neighbours promptly broke.

Suddenly, Lance had lost 16 APs and had six very Determined Foot bearing down on his looters in terrain. The Swiss didn’t disappoint, they caught the Horse and it was ‘steaks all round’ that evening.

A truly astounding 16:9 for the Swiss. I must have played for over an hour just one AP from breaking before a half strength unit and one recovered from rout polished off the French. Real knockabout stuff, although I suspect intensely frustrating for Lance.


Game 2 Jonathan Smith ECW Parliamentarians.

10 6-pax, 1 Med Guns, 4 Horse, 2 Dragoons, 17BGs.

Usual Swiss formation, spread out two-deep with the Lights on the flanks. Rushed forward to get at his 6-pax and didn’t think too much about the lights. Lost the Crossbowmen early and my left-hand 10 Keil. Unable to recover the Keil as its route home was right past some Horse that were herding the Arquebusiers towards my camp. At the same time my LH was also being herded towards the camp from the other direction. The Arq were unable to harm the single unit of Horse they faced and as the camp fell both Lights were trapped between converging Horse. By that time the Keils had routed five of the 6-pax to get the short end of a 6:19.

Another excellent knockabout game although this time I was the one frustrated. Once again, carelessness with the Lights had cost me. I could kick myself for not seeing the pincer earlier and retreating them towards the Keils to give me time to grab more APs.


Game 3 David Parish Hungarian Kuruc Rebellion.

Can’t remember the details of this one - 5 or 6 Haiduks (8 MF Musket Swd), some LH, 2 Dragoons, some Cav and a Polish ally with Winged Hussars. There was a steep hill in the centre of David’s baseline and enclosed fields in his central forward zone and left table edge.

Most of the fighting took place between the enclosed fields. The Polish Cav were shot down to frag and forced to withdraw along with the threatened Dragoons. The winged Hussars were then charged frontally by a Keil and in flank by the LH to prevent them breaking off. They broke on casualties, but only after doing the same to the LH. This left the MF on the steep hill vulnerable to my shooting. The Dragoons returned to cover them and were destroyed by Arquebusiers.

Two Keils charged the MF and Dragoons in the central fields, one forcing David’s Dragoons to stand to protect the MF flank. Before the Dragoons died another MF charged into the side of the Keil to prevent it pursuing onto the vulnerable MF in the fields. Another inevitable victory for the Keils, and the way was now clear to more MF in the open, although the Haiduk Swordsmen in the central field were causing considerable distress to their disordered opponents.

Time was called before the Swiss could mop up. I was much happier with the way the Lights had worked together and avoided previous catastrophes. 15:5


Game 4 Richard Bodley Scott’s Early TYW Swedes.

I think 5 Superior 7-Pax, 2 Average 6-pax, 2x2 Commanded Foot, 1 Medium Guns, 3 x 4 Horse, one with Carbines, and only three generals.

Significant terrain was an enclosed field on the centre-right of Richard’s table edge, a steep hill opposite it about 12 inches from my edge, and a road running diagonally behind the hill from my left flank to my table edge.

I was very worried about facing the Swedish brigades so sent the LH and Cb LF on a flank march on my left. As luck would have it Richard deployed two units of Horse on that edge and the rest of his army on my right. The flank march arrived turn one causing one of Richard’s Horse to burst through the other. Combined shooting from arquebus and crossbow took three elements off the two units and reduced them to frag before they got away and eventually recovered.

Meanwhile, the Keils used the road to scoot up the left table edge to await the rest of the Swedish army. Richard lined his 7-pax between the steep hill and the enclosed field with the Carbine Horse and Commanded Foot on my side of the steep hill. The hill made an ideal haven for my LF and they managed to rout a CF through shooting.

The Keils eventually came off the table edge to take on the Swedes in a battle I wasn’t sure they’d win. I couldn’t have been more wrong as they survived the initial disadvantage and gradually cracked Swedish resistance.

Time was called at 15:5 with me kicking myself for not having got stuck in sooner.


Game 5 Martin Van Tol, Early TYW German Catholic

Despite being in the same club Martin and I hadn’t played each other at FoG R before. He had one early and two late Tercios, all superior, three lots of 4 MF Muskets, 4 Dragoons, 2 Medium Guns, two lots of 4 LH Carbine and three lots of Horse.

There was a steep hill in the middle of his deployment zone and an enclosed field in the centre of the table. Martin deployed the three Horse units on one side of the hill and the rest of the army on the other side. I deployed opposite the Horse intending to turn the table and beat up his MF in the fields.

Long story short: on the left my lights trapped the Horse before they could get away, routing two and setting the third up for a fight with a Keil in some broken ground. On the right the 14 Keil was shot down to 6 bases, mostly by the Dragoons and a lot of ones, fell to frag before recovering and threatening the flank of an MF in melee. In the centre a 10 Keil had broken an MF, but then took so much shooting (down to 6) it broke in turn, only to recover and get stuck into the MF that was later threatened by the 14. The 16 also broke to shooting and, during the latter stages of its rout, screened the remnants of the 14 from further shooting.

The game was interrupted by a fire alarm and both Martin and I claimed the lost minutes would have given us victory. We were each on the verge of losing two more units – Martin’s Horse and MF, my beaten up Keils were each one base from autobreak. Given my dice I think Martin had the better claim so I’m grateful for the 11:9 victory and will remember the fire alarm trick for future sticky situations :evil: .


Game 6 Simon Le Ray Meyer Later TYW German Catholic

Although he has his own club now*, Simon still occasionally turns up at Central London and we’ve played a few games of Swiss v Germans, always with the same result: marmalised Germans. Consequently, Simon tried, but failed, to avoid fighting the Keils. However, he did manage to catch an LF, the LH and my camp before being marmalised this time. 19:6

* see the R&R for details.


Conclusion

The Swiss were everything I’d hoped, and feared, they’d be. The Keils were fast, scary and resilient. The Lights were vulnerable, but properly used they contributed vital APs. The army doesn’t like being shot at and so needs to get into HtH fast.

Their only defeat resulted from an opponent seeing the weakness of the Lights and going for them, and my incompetence in not seeing the trap before it closed. Their two victories came from pushing the Keils to do what they’re designed for. The games against Richard and David could have been won outright had I not been so nervous of their armies and hesitant to press home. The game against Martin showed how good shooting and bad Death Rolls can destroy even the simplest plans.

For the future, I think I’d switch to three 14’s of Elites and grab another LF or two.

I haven’t had such good fun in a competition for years! All the games were enjoyable and against opponents who played in a good spirit. In fact, I’m so keyed up I’ve decided to enter the Doubles at Oxford with a similar army, but more than twice the size – Peasant Wars. Watch this space to find out what happens as quality gives way to quantity.
Delbruck
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Post by Delbruck »

One of the best AAR that I have read without pictures.
Last edited by Delbruck on Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maniakes
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Post by Maniakes »

Aaahhh! 900 points of Peasant Wars could be truly scary - and I'll probably be bringing an army to Oxford that is particularly vulnerable to them ...
Delbruck
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Post by Delbruck »

A couple of questions:

If you used 4 TC's, do the Swiss really need that many? Perhaps you could get away with three?

Since the Swiss are so powerful, how about 5 10 base keils (3 elite and 2 superior)?
viperofmilan
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Post by viperofmilan »

I hate to rain on your parade, but i believe your 2-deep formation is illegal. Look at the definition of keil BG formation - all files must be 4 bases deep, minimum.

Kevin
Delbruck
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Post by Delbruck »

viperofmilan wrote:I hate to rain on your parade, but i believe your 2-deep formation is illegal. Look at the definition of keil BG formation - all files must be 4 bases deep, minimum.

Kevin
It's not illegal, it's just not a keil. A keil has certain benefits which would be lost when in two ranks.
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Post by footslogger »

Delbruck wrote:
viperofmilan wrote:I hate to rain on your parade, but i believe your 2-deep formation is illegal. Look at the definition of keil BG formation - all files must be 4 bases deep, minimum.

Kevin
It's not illegal, it's just not a keil. A keil has certain benefits which would be lost when in two ranks.
I was reading it that he started 2 deep then shifted into 4 deep once his opponents were deployed/committed. But maybe not....
Delbruck
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Post by Delbruck »

Unlike other formations, I don't think there is anything that forces the Swiss to be in a keil formtion. It is just that when they are in a formtion at least four deep, etc. - the formation is classed as a keil (and they gain the benefits of being in a keil). Swiss in a formation two deep are not in a keil, and don't get the benefits of that formation.
Last edited by Delbruck on Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
viperofmilan
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Post by viperofmilan »

Well, I guess you could be right. All I know is that kiels are described in the unit formations section. Overall, FoG-R is much more restrictive on what constitutes a legal formation than is FoG-AM. I believe, and our group has played it, that kiels are to be deployed as kiels as defined in the rules until rendered unable by losses to do so. This is how the formation rules work for every other defined formation (tercios, pike & shot, other mixed BGs) so why do you assume kiels are exempted?

Sounds like one for the authors to wade in on.

Kevin
daveallen
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Post by daveallen »

Unlike tercios, 6-pax, etc a keil is not a bg type, it is merely a formation pikemen may adopt, just like a square.

Also, I played RBS, I think he might have commented!

Regards, Dave
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Post by rbodleyscott »

Arguably we should have forced them to deploy in keil formation, sadly we didn't
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Post by footslogger »

rbodleyscott wrote:Arguably we should have forced them to deploy in keil formation, sadly we didn't
Due to profound philosophical implications for the body of rules? Or due to the 5:15 result? :shock:
timmy1
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Post by timmy1 »

As I was on the recieving end of Steve's 3 GBGs of 16 Elite Swiss, two of which deployed not as Keils, and a Swiss player myself to boot, rest assured I spent most of the time Steve was on fag breaks looking for something to confirm that he could not be 2-deep and could not even find a hint of it... I believe it is legal.
donm
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Post by donm »

Certainly looks strange that they can do this, when Tercios and pike and shot units do not appear to have the same freedom.

Page 34 'Exceptions' doesn't seem to allow it.

Maybe needs a look at?

On the plus side, it would certainly be easier to beat them in two ranks.

Don
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Post by Maniakes »

donm wrote:Certainly looks strange that they can do this, when Tercios and pike and shot units do not appear to have the same freedom.

Page 34 'Exceptions' doesn't seem to allow it.

Maybe needs a look at?

On the plus side, it would certainly be easier to beat them in two ranks.

Don
Yeah, but they don't stay in two ranks! As they bore down on me Dave's units were almost continuously either expanding or contracting - often for reasons that were too subtle for me to grasp. so I just called it the "Swiss Accordion" and concentrated on running away
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Post by Vespasian28 »

the "Swiss Accordion"
:lol:

I shall have to try that
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Post by viperofmilan »

Well, I have to say that I find permitting kiels to deploy in this 2-deep formation is profoundly distasteful, and frankly very disappointing. I shall have to re-think my positive assessment of FoG-R if this kind of nonsense is going to be allowed. I do not believe there is a shred of historical justification for permitting kiels to deploy other than as legal kiels, so this tactic is being allowed only for the worst kind of "gamey" reasons - permitting kiels to avoid the penalties for being kiels while increasing their flexibility and manueverability in completely unhistorical ways. I had believed that FoG had moved beyond that sort of thing. Very, very disappointing.

Kevin
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Post by Skullzgrinda »

I am heartened to read that earlier armies are viable against later ones. Perhaps the initial impression that later armies had a clear superiority is wrong, or at least not always correct.
timmy1
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Post by timmy1 »

You can probably blaim it on the numpty who played Swiss in the Beta tourney not having the brains to think of it so the rules authors did not see it to ban it.

However I think we have to be careful of making rash judgements about the historical accuracy here. A 16 base GBG of Swiss probably represents 3000 men. Even if 20 ranks deep the frontage will be 150 files. The formation will be approximately 7.5 times wider than it is long, so probably represents the contingents of a number of cantons. On the table in 15mm it will be 40mm deep and 320mm wide which is not too far off 7.5 to 1. I don't have any problem with it then closing up to at the moment of impact. From what I read of 1476 to 1513 nothing says that the Swiss were not able to manouvre rapidly and with great skill.
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Post by donm »

Yeah, but they don't stay in two ranks!
So does this mean that pike and shot units can deploy in any formation they like, provided at sometime during the game they form a legal formation?


Don
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