Half-tracks for Artillery? (at Norway)

OxfordGuy3 · Post by **OxfordGuy3** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:55 am

Hi - I started a new '39 campaign recently, on Field Marshall level, in the Poland scenario I got a decisive victory and built near the start:

1 Fighter
1 HE111 Bomber (I know the JU88 is better, but I like to get experience for my Strat bombers early on and I understand this upgrades cheaply to the powerful HE177)
1 Stuka

I'm now at the deployment phase of the Norway scenario. I was dissappointed not to get an SE unit, first time I think this has happened (perhaps to do with Field Marshal setting?). Anyway, I'm now trying to choose my new units/upgrades etc. Was thinking of:

1 JU88 (I like strat bombers anyway, but in this and Sealion would be useful as an anti-naval unit too)
1 10.5cm Artillery - but now that half-tracks are available, am not sure whether to get one of these to tow it (better defence and off-road movement) or a truck (better road movement, cheaper) - what does everyone think?

Am also thinking of upgrading one or two of my unmounted infantry (not the mountain one) to Engineers and buying half-tracks for them.

For LC will probably buy at least another figther (or two) maybe two more tanks (and upgrade all my existing ones) and a recon - does that sounds plausible?

starbird · Post by **starbird** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:20 am

If this is your first attempt at campaign, obviously you've read more than enough from forum.
So why not give your theory a try first?
Because at this stage of the game, great room of error is still allowed and can be amended later, and with your knowledge of the game, I'm sure you'll do just fine.
Besides, some of your ideas are very intriguing, some of those I came across also yet never have a chance to test, so I'm dying to see how those work out.

Douaumont · Post by **Douaumont** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:23 pm

I'm a big fan of strategic bombers also, and I like the idea of going with the He-111 as a way to think ahead to the deadly He-177. I will be interested in learning how it turns out for you. I think Norway is one of the toughest scenarios to win with a decisive victory.

OxfordGuy3 · Post by **OxfordGuy3** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:33 pm

I'm definitely going ahead with the He-111 idea (though my second strategic bomber will be a Ju-88), still unsure whether its worth getting half-tracks for my towed-artillery, though. BTW does anyone know if there is a cheap upgrade path from the early half-tracks to the later ones?

AgentX · Post by **AgentX** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:38 pm

I usually get half tracks for all my infantry and towed artillery at the Low Countries. When at Norway, prestige is in low supply and needed for other things like upgrading those lousy PzI and PzII's. I also like upgrading two of the infantry w/o trucks to fallschirmjagers (they come in handy for Norway). You also need to purchase a strat bomber if you haven't already. My suggestion would also get the Marginal Victory in Norway so you can collect about 500 more prestige w/o penalty (you still go to the Low Countries). Just make sure Trondheim is the last city you take or the MV will get triggered early. Leave a unit next to it (or an artillery unit in it since they can't capture) and continue on to Namsos in the north. Once you take Namsos, you can play to the very end and take Trondheim on the last turn. The 500 more prestige will come in real handy for the Low Countries.

impar · Post by **impar** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:51 pm

Keep artillery in trucks (50 prestige) till you get the good halftrack, SdKfz 250 (200P). Total cost 250P.
If you go through all the available transports (truck, SdKfz 251 and SdKfz 250), you pay 350P (50+100+200).
Multiply that 100P difference for all towed and infantry units...

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:59 pm

I typically stick to the cheap and faster opel blitz for a long time. The extra prestige is important to build up, and as long as you don't blindly rush your transports forward into enemy lines and the fog of war, it really doesn't matter all that much how fragile they are.

AgentX · Post by **AgentX** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:03 pm

impar wrote:Keep artillery in trucks (50 prestige) till you get the good halftrack, SdKfz 250 (200P). Total cost 250P.
If you go through all the available transports (truck, SdKfz 251 and SdKfz 250), you pay 350P (50+100+200).
Multiply that 100P difference for all towed and infantry units...

I respectfully disagree. That is a long time to wait for upgrading to half-tracks and means you have to wait until Barbarossa to upgrade. Meanwhile, you're stuck using roads to get anywhere on Low Countries, France and either Sealion '40 or Greece. Plus, half-tracks are more resilient and, in a pinch, can also be used offensively while trucks cannot (say to finish off a weak unit after it retreated but is now out range of your infantry on foot; better to finish it off than allow it to reinforce). After the Low Countries, prestige usually isn't as much of an issue (unless you're playing on the really hard difficulty levels).

OxfordGuy3 · Post by **OxfordGuy3** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:17 pm

impar wrote:Keep artillery in trucks (50 prestige) till you get the good halftrack, SdKfz 250 (200P). Total cost 250P.
If you go through all the available transports (truck, SdKfz 251 and SdKfz 250), you pay 350P (50+100+200).
Multiply that 100P difference for all towed and infantry units...

But I wasn't at this stage considering replacing the transport for the units that already have a truck (those I might wait for the second half track before replacing), I was talking about buying a new artillery unit at Norway and was thinking of going straight to a half-track for this, as unlike infantry, artillery can barely move off road without half-track transport, and it would help with air defense on the move etc. It would mean slower movement *on* roads and a little more prestige expenditure, though.

aschindler · Post by **aschindler** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:19 am

Sturmpanzers for early artillery are really nice relative to the towed ones. Try 'em and you won't go back. Better attack numbers and, with their greater movement, they can be in the right place at the right time.

I've really soured on recon units now that I see there are no upgrade paths for any of them.

impar · Post by **impar** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:20 pm

aschindler wrote:Sturmpanzers for early artillery are really nice relative to the towed ones.

The 4-ammo is a major drawback.
And if you stay in the towed ones you can get very experienced units sooner with less prestige spending.

OxfordGuy3 · Post by **OxfordGuy3** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:36 pm

impar wrote:
aschindler wrote:Sturmpanzers for early artillery are really nice relative to the towed ones.
The 4-ammo is a major drawback.
And if you stay in the towed ones you can get very experienced units sooner with less prestige spending.

Indeed, I like to have a mix of both types

Storyteller · Post by **Storyteller** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:18 pm

I started a new campaign this weekend, but this time on Field Marshal. And I had the same idea for the level bombers. Instead of buying 2x Ju-88, I took one Ju-88 in Norway first, and in France I bought a He-111. The Heinkel isn't bad as the Do-17 and in the end of the campaign a very dangerous opponent, when upgraded to the He-177 "Reichsfackel".

When it comes to artillery, I now use a mix of towed guns and SPGs. Towed for an area where I don't have too move much like in the north of the Low Countries and fast SPG for speedy advances. In Russia I added one Wurfrahmen (Nebelwerfer) to my core army.

OxfordGuy3 · Post by **OxfordGuy3** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:10 pm

Storyteller wrote:I started a new campaign this weekend, but this time on Field Marshal. And I had the same idea for the level bombers. Instead of buying 2x Ju-88, I took one Ju-88 in Norway first, and in France I bought a He-111. The Heinkel isn't bad as the Do-17 and in the end of the campaign a very dangerous opponent, when upgraded to the He-177 "Reichsfackel".

Why not buy the HE111 in Poland, then you can have this and a Ju88 for Norway, where strategic bombers really help, and it'll gain more experience? I guess it depends on what else you feel you need to buy for Poland and Norway, though...

When it comes to artillery, I now use a mix of towed guns and SPGs. Towed for an area where I don't have too move much like in the north of the Low Countries and fast SPG for speedy advances. In Russia I added one Wurfrahmen (Nebelwerfer) to my core army.

Sounds sensible and the rocket artillery is fun, so at least one of these is a must

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:21 pm

I always take the first halftrack. I usually prefer self-propelled artillery like the Sturmpanzer I despite their low ammo.
I also used a StuH42 in Italy - because it is well armored against air attacks, unlike other self-propelled artillery. Not unimportant if you play a defensive campaign.

I never use range 2 artillery like the Nebelwerfer also because of their weakness against hard targets.

If you use towed artillery: Do you really need an 8 speed halftrack? On the defense you don't. On the offense neither, unless you want to overtake your Panthers.
Also, consider the price:
50 Opel Blitz
100 Sdkfz 251 halftrack
200 Faster Sdkfz 250 halftrack

This will make replacements more expensive. I just wondered that the smaller SdKfz 250 becomes available later were both not around the same time?
(in fact the 250 was discontinued in favor of focusing on the larger 251)