Now that there is the ability to set AI activity according to triggers, there needs to be some definitive description of what each one does. This could be complemented by some examples that might occur in a game.
For example,
- what is the difference between Defender, Defender (Passive) and Defender (Active)?
- what conditions are necessary for Attacker to function? A player-owned flag? Something else? Will the AI attack units rather than flags?
Along with the descriptions a few examples would help, too.
e.g. If you want to have a town defended but the AI sends some units out to attack and others sit back and wait, do this...
If you want all your AI to swarm and attack on a certain turn, do this...
that sort of thing.
Cheers
AI action triggers
Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
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El_Condoro
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This information is in the editor since ever, just hover [?] next to AI setting in the unit details popup. Note that "Attacker" and "Defender" are generic settings. They only mean that the unit must be used to attack enemy VHs or defend your own ones, but how exactly the AI will be doing this is not specified. In the future updates the AI might change, and handling of these settings will change as well.
If you have other ideas for useful AI settings that we might want to add, please feel free to post them.
If you have other ideas for useful AI settings that we might want to add, please feel free to post them.
Garrison AI setting might be nice.
Never moves from hex.
Will attack from stationary position if presented a suitable and preferable target.
Will supply, reinforce and overstrength.
Actually on second though, that's terrible. Never mind, don't implement that.
I think the AI has enough settings that it is flexible and effective, it just requires the right setting to do so. Just leaving them all on default is very ineffective.
Personally I think the AI's offensive purchasing decisions could be improved (Not just the best and most expensive tank at the same hex all the time) but even this can be worked around with judicious use of pre-placed units, limited core size, and the new AI triggers.
I know what really needs improvement:
Not moving units in transport point blank into the player's units. That would be nice and that has no work around.... except of course not giving the AI transports at all. That works. lol
Never moves from hex.
Will attack from stationary position if presented a suitable and preferable target.
Will supply, reinforce and overstrength.
Actually on second though, that's terrible. Never mind, don't implement that.
I think the AI has enough settings that it is flexible and effective, it just requires the right setting to do so. Just leaving them all on default is very ineffective.
Personally I think the AI's offensive purchasing decisions could be improved (Not just the best and most expensive tank at the same hex all the time) but even this can be worked around with judicious use of pre-placed units, limited core size, and the new AI triggers.
I know what really needs improvement:
Not moving units in transport point blank into the player's units. That would be nice and that has no work around.... except of course not giving the AI transports at all. That works. lol
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El_Condoro
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Those descriptions are very general.Rudankort wrote:This information is in the editor since ever, just hover [?] next to AI setting in the unit details popup
For example, "Default means the AI is free to determine how to use the unit best". OK, I already figured that out but what will determine the definition of "best" for the AI?
"Attacker and defender are also generic settings but the AI is supposed to use the unit for attack and defence respectively". Again, I already worked that out. How does 'Defender' differ from the two Defender (Active) and (Passive) settings, which again I have already figured out in a general sense. What triggers a Defender (Aggressive) unit to leave its post and attack - any unit in sight? A particular unit in spotting range? Only if other defenders can support it? etc etc.
The descriptions of these settings need to be more specific because, as a designer, if the AI sends Defender (Active) units out to attack any unit in spotting range, for example, I need to know to counter the human player's likely response - use weak auxiliary units to lure it out of its position. That sort of thing.
Of course, I could create a mock scenario to test all this but if the explanation is readily available...
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El_Condoro
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At the risk of seeming like I'm banging on about one issue...
The AI defender settings have an issue:
Defender: will leave excellent entrenchment to attack enemy even if it puts the unit in a completely vulnerable position
Hold (Active): will also do the same but is still useful to set for tanks etc that perhaps should act that way
Hold (Passive): will not leave entrenchment but neither will they attack adjacent vulnerable enemy units.
Default: will happily leave deeply entrenched position to attack a tank in the open!
There does not seem to be any way to keep a defender in prepared entrenchment *and* get them to attack enemy units (from their hex) in their turn if the opportunity presents itself.
Thus, a designer is faced with a choice of passive defenders who just wait to be killed or ones that bring about their own demise by attacking too readily!
The AI defender settings have an issue:
Defender: will leave excellent entrenchment to attack enemy even if it puts the unit in a completely vulnerable position
Hold (Active): will also do the same but is still useful to set for tanks etc that perhaps should act that way
Hold (Passive): will not leave entrenchment but neither will they attack adjacent vulnerable enemy units.
Default: will happily leave deeply entrenched position to attack a tank in the open!
There does not seem to be any way to keep a defender in prepared entrenchment *and* get them to attack enemy units (from their hex) in their turn if the opportunity presents itself.
Thus, a designer is faced with a choice of passive defenders who just wait to be killed or ones that bring about their own demise by attacking too readily!
If you are correct about Passive not attacking adjacent hex when appropriate do to mass attack or advantage of a single attack....El_Condoro wrote:At the risk of seeming like I'm banging on about one issue...
The AI defender settings have an issue:
Defender: will leave excellent entrenchment to attack enemy even if it puts the unit in a completely vulnerable position
Hold (Active): will also do the same but is still useful to set for tanks etc that perhaps should act that way
Hold (Passive): will not leave entrenchment but neither will they attack adjacent vulnerable enemy units.
Default: will happily leave deeply entrenched position to attack a tank in the open!
There does not seem to be any way to keep a defender in prepared entrenchment *and* get them to attack enemy units (from their hex) in their turn if the opportunity presents itself.
Thus, a designer is faced with a choice of passive defenders who just wait to be killed or ones that bring about their own demise by attacking too readily!
Then I agree.... This is a major improvement that is needed.
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El_Condoro
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So what setting/s should be used to get the garrison effect you describe (which is what I want and you say is not desirable in your thread - why?).
On anything except Passive the AI will move units out of entrenchment.
[Edit]: Had a bit of a think on this and sort of agree with what you're saying. It has to do with the average PzC hex scale to me. Even though a transported unit may appear next to an entrenched unit looking at the hexes, they could be over 5km apart using a 1 hex = 10km scale. So, if the entrenched unit wanted to attack the transported unit, given that combat occurs in the defender's hex, it would have to leave its entrenchment to do so. The other thing is that combat is made up of an attack and a response to the attack, so the entrenched defender gets to use its entrenchment in that exchange. Upshot: Hold (Passive) is the AI to use if a hex is to be occupied by a defending unit.
That said, I still think Default and Hold (Active) are far too ready to leave good defensive positions to attack an approaching enemy.
On anything except Passive the AI will move units out of entrenchment.
[Edit]: Had a bit of a think on this and sort of agree with what you're saying. It has to do with the average PzC hex scale to me. Even though a transported unit may appear next to an entrenched unit looking at the hexes, they could be over 5km apart using a 1 hex = 10km scale. So, if the entrenched unit wanted to attack the transported unit, given that combat occurs in the defender's hex, it would have to leave its entrenchment to do so. The other thing is that combat is made up of an attack and a response to the attack, so the entrenched defender gets to use its entrenchment in that exchange. Upshot: Hold (Passive) is the AI to use if a hex is to be occupied by a defending unit.
That said, I still think Default and Hold (Active) are far too ready to leave good defensive positions to attack an approaching enemy.
I would say such a specific AI condition is too limited in it's capabilities. Hold position active is suitable, and when you absolutely want a unit to never move, you can use hold position passive.
If you really want a unit to never move, you can use the new triggers to order hold passive, and only switch to hold active when enemies move adjacent to it through zone configuration.
If you really want a unit to never move, you can use the new triggers to order hold passive, and only switch to hold active when enemies move adjacent to it through zone configuration.
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El_Condoro
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The AI triggers don't seem to have any effect when attacking with naval/air transports
I made a tiny tiny test map 10X10 with five objectives with five axis units that have transport/or acess to transport
And at no point do i see any land based units use the naval transports as an attacker when he has acess to it
The one sea transport at sea does attack one of the primary objectives but when his done he just sits there even tho he has acess to same transport
He makes no effort to attack the next primary objective as an attacker?
Same with air transports as attackers they still can't disembark/Units at airfieds with acess to air transports still refuse to use them
I made this with the beta patch
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f3hciz
I made a tiny tiny test map 10X10 with five objectives with five axis units that have transport/or acess to transport
And at no point do i see any land based units use the naval transports as an attacker when he has acess to it
The one sea transport at sea does attack one of the primary objectives but when his done he just sits there even tho he has acess to same transport
He makes no effort to attack the next primary objective as an attacker?
Same with air transports as attackers they still can't disembark/Units at airfieds with acess to air transports still refuse to use them
I made this with the beta patch
http://www.sendspace.com/file/f3hciz