charging move priority !!!

[zeitoun]

Hi all,

fichier pdf: chargemulti.pdf


in this situation the LF evade. the LH want to stay to face the ennemie's LH.

The LF move 4mu ( bad roll )and the CV roll 6MU ( good roll )

Witch charger's move first CV = 6MU or LH 7MU no variable ?

If CV move first the purple LH must evade ( or make a CMT to stand) but if the yellow LH move first the CV cannot catch the LF as the LH block her. ...

any suggestion ????

[philqw78]

It is the choice of the charger,

[zeitoun]

no speed priority ??

[grahambriggs]

Hi all,

fichier pdf: chargemulti.pdf


in this situation the LF evade. the LH want to stay to face the ennemie's LH.

The LF move 4mu ( bad roll )and the CV roll 6MU ( good roll )

Witch charger's move first CV = 6MU or LH 7MU no variable ?

If CV move first the purple LH must evade ( or make a CMT to stand) but if the yellow LH move first the CV cannot catch the LF as the LH block her. ...

any suggestion ????

"Each charge and any responses to it must be actioned in the order listed in the full turn sequence at the end of the book, but if there is more than one charge the active player chooses the order in which they are actioned." - it's at the end of the Impact section.

It is very important to choose the order BEFORE you throw VMD

[zeitoun]

It is very important to choose the order BEFORE you throw VMD

in this case it's very difficult.

Charges are declare.
LF evade making VMD and LH stand as she can only be touch by the LH as CV did not roll is VMD.
CV roll Vmd . LH become target . decide to evade making vmd
yellow LH make VMD as all targets evade.
Then you choose witch chargers move first ???

is it right?

[grahambriggs]

It is very important to choose the order BEFORE you throw VMD

in this case it's very difficult.

Charges are declare.
LF evade making VMD and LH stand as she can only be touch by the LH as CV did not roll is VMD.
CV roll Vmd . LH become target . decide to evade making vmd
yellow LH make VMD as all targets evade.
Then you choose witch chargers move first ???

is it right?

No.

Declare all charges. Let us say you have two, the cavalry and the Light horse.
Decide which charge you will do first. Let us say it is the cavalry.
Follow the turn sequence for reactions to the charge and the charge move.
The LF evade. The cavalry roll high VMD, so the enemy LH must decide will they evade or try to stand?
Then do the light horse charge the same.
Then do all the impact combats. As the rules say "Once all responses and all charge moves have been completed, impact combat is resolved."

[grahambriggs]

It is very important to choose the order BEFORE you throw VMD

in this case it's very difficult.

Charges are declare.
LF evade making VMD and LH stand as she can only be touch by the LH as CV did not roll is VMD.
CV roll Vmd . LH become target . decide to evade making vmd
yellow LH make VMD as all targets evade.
Then you choose witch chargers move first ???

is it right?

No.

Declare all charges. Let us say you have two, the cavalry and the Light horse.
Decide which charge you will do first. Let us say it is the cavalry.
Follow the turn sequence for reactions to the charge and the charge move.
The LF evade. The cavalry roll high VMD, so the enemy LH must decide will they evade or try to stand?
Then do the light horse charge the same.
Then do all the impact combats. As the rules say "Once all responses and all charge moves have been completed, impact combat is resolved."

[zeitoun]

thanks.

But when the target of a charge must choose the direction of the evade. If you run chargers by chargers , how do you consider the angle of the evading troop charging from 2 directions ?

[grahambriggs]

You are being charged by more than one enemy, so split the angle (or evade to your rear)

[philqw78]

I disagree graham. In your version if the LH charged first and the enemy LH stood they would then become a target of the cav and not be able to evade, already being in combat. Decide and move evaders. Roll VMD for chargers, if any troops that can evade now become targets they may choose to evade. Roll and move those evaders. Roll any VMD made necessary by this, if any other BG that can evade now become a target they can evade. Once all targets have evaded then move chargers.

[grahambriggs]

I disagree graham. In your version if the LH charged first and the enemy LH stood they would then become a target of the cav and not be able to evade, already being in combat. Decide and move evaders. Roll VMD for chargers, if any troops that can evade now become targets they may choose to evade. Roll and move those evaders. Roll any VMD made necessary by this, if any other BG that can evade now become a target they can evade. Once all targets have evaded then move chargers.

Disagree with which bit? The rule is:

"Each charge and any responses to it must be actioned in the order listed in the full turn sequence at the end of the book, but if there is more than one charge the active player chooses the order in which they are actioned. Once all responses and all charge moves have been completed, impact combat is resolved"

So If the LH charge is done first, and the enemy LH stand then yes they are in close combat so can't evade from the cavalry.

Are you saying do all evaders then do all chargers? That doesn't seem to be the way the rule is written, though I'm happy to be shown otherwise. Of course it often doesn't matter, as the charges don't interact.

[philqw78]

I am saying do all evades, then do all charges.
make evade moves comes before make charge moves.

[lawrenceg]

I am saying do all evades, then do all charges.
make evade moves comes before make charge moves.

This is what the sequence at the back of the book says, but...

It gets problematic when a BG must evade only because a charge rolled up on a VMD. In that case some other charges may have been completed BEFORE this one and hence the evade occurs AFTER some of the charge moves.

"Each charge and any responses to it must be actioned in the order listed in the full turn sequence at the end of the book, but if there is more than one charge the active player chooses the order in which they are actioned. Once all responses and all charge moves have been completed, impact combat is resolved"

implies each charge and response is a little sub-phase and each one is completed in its entirety before repeating the sub-phase for the next charge.


However, the full turn sequence at the back of the book does not have the charge sub-phase indicated, and it is not complete in any case. It needs indenting or boxing.

The sub-phase sequence needs to be something like:

For each charge in turn:
move interceptors
test cohesion for fragmented targets and any knock-on tests, make initial rout moves
move evaders
move evaders exposed by intervening troops evading or routing
test cohesion for fragmented targets exposed by intervening troops evading or routing and any knock-on tests, make initial rout moves
roll charger VMD
For new targets now within extended charge distance due to VMD:

• test cohesion for fragmented targets and any knock-on tests, make initial rout moves
  move evaders
  move evaders exposed by intervening troops evading
  test cohesion for fragmented targets exposed by intervening troops evading or routing and any knock-on tests, make initial rout moves

move chargers

evaders would have to count charge direction of the BG currently charging and any other BG that has declared a charge on them, but not BGs that have not charged yet and might reach them with the right combination of evades, routs and VMDs.

Charge sequencing was identified as something to clarify in version 2. Has it been?

[grahambriggs]

I am saying do all evades, then do all charges.
make evade moves comes before make charge moves.

Well, that might make a better rule, but the rule says something different. And as Lawrence points out, there are some rough edges here.

To be fair, i think I've had it matter only once, and that time I narfed it up and rolled all my VMDs before specifying the order. My gracious opponent suggested we just roll a dice to see which charged first.

[zeitoun]

To be fair, i think I've had it matter only once, and that time I narfed it up and rolled all my VMDs before specifying the order. My gracious opponent suggested we just roll a dice to see which charged first

or we can say that : After rolling VMD ( for charger and evaders ) , move the faster's BG in first. If equal , player choice ??? The same for the evaders BG , move the faster'BG in first....

[grahambriggs]

To be fair, i think I've had it matter only once, and that time I narfed it up and rolled all my VMDs before specifying the order. My gracious opponent suggested we just roll a dice to see which charged first

or we can say that : After rolling VMD ( for charger and evaders ) , move the faster's BG in first. If equal , player choice ??? The same for the evaders BG , move the faster'BG in first....

Well, if your opponent agrees, play it that way - I doubt it'll make much difference. But that is not how the rules are written.

[hazelbark]

"Each charge and any responses to it must be actioned in the order listed in the full turn sequence at the end of the book, but if there is more than one charge the active player chooses the order in which they are actioned." - it's at the end of the Impact section.

It is very important to choose the order BEFORE you throw VMD

I've not considered this before to be honest. I get the evaders need to specify the direction they flee before rolling the VMD.
But its the strict sequence for evaders.

All Evaders indicate direction of evade.
All Roll VMD.
Then (I believe here it is owner) player chooses order of evades.

If that is true?
Then where does it say you must roll chargers VMD after indicating order of charges. And if you have 3 chargers. Do you only need to indicate which one you are rolling for as moving next, or do you have to indicate the priority of order of all before rolling the 1st VMD?

[zoltan]

Darn unda we have always played a la Phil.

Move ALL evaders (splitting any angles arising from all declared charges). Move in order of highest VMDs (fastest evaders move first).

Move ALL chargers in the order chosen by the active player.

We have not played cycling phases of evade/charge, evade/charge.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[lawrenceg]

Darn unda we have always played a la Phil.

Move ALL evaders (splitting any angles arising from all declared charges). Move in order of highest VMDs (fastest evaders move first).

Well that is certainly wrong because the rules say that charges and responses are made in the order decided by the active player, i.e. the player whose turn it is.

Has the general issue of charge and evade sequencing been addressed in FOG 2? At a minimum the main text and the turn sequence need to be made consistent.

[zoltan]

Certainly V2 needs to make clear if it should be:

1. do all evades then do all charges running through the Full Turn Sequence line by line only once, or

2. do each evade/charge, evade/charge etc cycling back through the Full Turn Sequence as many times as necessary