US West Coast: help needed!!!

[Storyteller]

Hi everyone!

I played the campaign on "General" till the last scenario, the US West Coast... which I cannot win. Whatever strategy I use, I always cannot take San Francisco within the turn limit. The best try so far: I just would have needed one more turn to win.

My most successfull setup so far:

1. Two army attack groups, one smaller defensive group.

The first group consits of:

2x Elite Tiger II
1x Veteran Jagdtiger
1x Veteran Panther G
2x Hummel SPGs
1x Wurfrahmen (Nebelwerfer)
2x Ostwind
1x Scout Tank
2x Crack Infantry units
and the Rail Gun

The second group consits of:

3x Elite Panther G units
1x Wirbelwind
1x Wurfrahmen (Nebelwerfer)
1x Scout Tank
1x Crack Infantry unit
1x Brigde Pioneers

The third, defensive group consits of:

the AUX Stug III, Hetzer, Panzer IV and one of my Core Veteran Infantry units.

The Luftwaffe forces:

2x Me-262
2x Ta-152
2x Bf-410
3x Ju-87
1x Ju-188 (Elite with 14 units in reserve to destroy naval vessels!!!)

The battleplan:

While the first group moves straight west to Los Angeles and goes north from there to San Francisco, the second group is heading north-west to take Seattle and turns south to San Francisco, after Seattle is taken. The third group takes a defensive position near the starting position, to repulse the attack of combined US ground forces from north. After this, I send them north to take a couple of US cities to gain more prestige. I don't send them to the coast, because the units are realtivly weak and the way to the coast is very long, so they won't make any difference there anyway.

My main problems are the US Pershing tanks. I kill them all, but it takes way too much time to destroy them all without serious losses.
My second problem are the anti-air guns in L.A. and they bay area around S.F.. My Luftwaffe is able to shoot down all of the US Airforce and destroy the Navy, but losing to much strength to the AA guns. And I cannot get to all of the guns in time, because of the Pershings and entrenched AT guns.
Third problem is, the Stukas (Ju-87) have to fight for some turns in the east, because third group is not strong enough, to fight off the final US tank assault on their own.

I m trying to beat this last scenario for several days now with different setups and strategies, but I cannot win. I even replayed former battles, to spare more key units for the final scenario.

Any ideas or suggestions to it? Otherwise I'm going to loose my mind about this game.

Cheers,
Storyteller

[VPaulus]

viewtopic.php?t=26740

[Storyteller]

Thank's for the link, but hey played on "Colonel" and I think, Jagdpanthers aren't good enough on "General" to beat Pershings. I already tried a similar setup on Mid West and there the Pershings have beaten the crap out of my Jagdpanthers and Panthers. So I switched to Tiger II and Jagdtiger and it worked much better.

And on Colonel I guess his losses during the campaign were not as high as mine. By the way, I have won Moscow 41 in a decisive victory, so he played more scenarios than I did. Here is my battlelist:

Poland: Decisive
Norway: Decisive
Lowlands: Marginal
France: Marginal
Greece: Marginal
Barbarossa: Marginal
Kiev: Decisive
Moscow 41: Decisive
Seelion 42: Marginal or Decisive - dunno anymore
US East Cost: Marginal
US Midwest: Decisive
US West Coast: Loss (so far)

I'm still open for ideas.

Cheers,
Storyteller

[Kerensky]

I would...

Drop the AD units from your core. If you disband these units during the deploy phase, you are returned 100% prestige.
Get more towed artillery 150s (you lose too much time resuppling 4 ammo units constantly)
Get more infantry and artillery, West Coast is primarily a rough terrain battle.
Strip a few units off from your north defense group and don't try to muscle their way through the Rockies.

I'm a little surprised you got a major victory in USA MidWest which has 6 Pershings + multitudes of Shermans and Jacksons, but West Coast with 2 pershings and 2 jacksons is giving you trouble?

Good luck!

[Longasc]

I had constantly prestige problems but played at Colonel.
(what is actually the special bonus to the enemy at Field Marshal besides the better AI level?)

I found the Panther G to be vulnerable and your ground setup is what I would do if I would have to play it again. Focus on more Tiger II than Panthers but you can probably not change that anymore either.

I had a lot more infantry. Dunno about the "defensive group" but 1-2 Jagdtigers can support the aux troops against the counter attack if this is what you mean with defensive group.

- I think the problem is your lack of Level Bombers and few air units.
(I had so many Do-335 Pfeil. How can you keep your Stukas alive, do you escort them all the time?)
- He177 and Ju188 provide high suppression, and this is what you need both to kill and to do so without too much risk and losses.

I don't think I have to tell you how to fight on ground, I think you should consider 2 more level bombers. Doesn't need to be He177 if you can't afford it.

[Storyteller]

First of all thank you both for your help! Now to the suggestions in detail:

I would...

Drop the AD units from your core. If you disband these units during the deploy phase, you are returned 100% prestige.
Get more towed artillery 150s (you lose too much time resuppling 4 ammo units constantly)
Get more infantry and artillery, West Coast is primarily a rough terrain battle.
Strip a few units off from your north defense group and don't try to muscle their way through the Rockies.

I'm a little surprised you got a major victory in USA MidWest which has 6 Pershings + multitudes of Shermans and Jacksons, but West Coast with 2 pershings and 2 jacksons is giving you trouble?

Good luck!

Drop AD: I can't drop the AD, because I already have too few fighters. I need them to reduce enemy fighter units, before I can attack them in air to air combat. I tried to buy more new, unexperienced planes, but they are easy prey for the veteran US pilots. I think I should have bought more fighters long ago, so they would be experts by now.
Get more towed artillery: Great idea! I will try this asap, because I run out of ammo too often.
Get more infantry: Same problem as with unexperienced fighters: They don't stand a chance against entrenched US veterans.
Get more artillery: Not enough prestige...
Strip a few units off of north group: The Panthers don't stand a chance around L.A. and I really need em, to take Seattle in time and go south along the coast line. I never go through the Rockies, waste of units and time.

Major victory in Midwest: If you encircle the enemy and kill the AA, the Pershings are easy targets for combined Artillery/Stuka/Maus/Tiger II-Attacks. But in L.A. its kinda different situation because of the terrain, the entrenched units and the US Navy. I cannot take out three AA guns, when ships are killing my artillery and AT guns blocking the way for my tanks. My army is great in open terrain like in Russia, Midwest or the countryside of the Eastcoast. But if it comes to rough terrain battle... I'm in trouble. :-/

- I think the problem is your lack of Level Bombers and few air units.
(I had so many Do-335 Pfeil. How can you keep your Stukas alive, do you escort them all the time?)
- He177 and Ju188 provide high suppression, and this is what you need both to kill and to do so without too much risk and losses.

I don't think I have to tell you how to fight on ground, I think you should consider 2 more level bombers. Doesn't need to be He177 if you can't afford it

I cannot afford more Level Bombers, because I really lack of prestige. I'm hardly able to stop the US airforce and protect my Stukas, because they are my flying artillery. And when I get to L.A., my only Level Bomber unit has a lot of work to do, because there are 4 capital ships and 1 destroyer, pounding my ground units.

Do-335 Pfeil... havn't tried this unit so far. Ich think I will give it a chance.

To your question: It's not easy, but possible to keep the Stukas alive, when you slaughter the enemy air force with carefull air tactics. In the initial air attack, every Stuka has to have two escort fighters. That means, you have to hold one or two Stukas back. When the enemy airforce shows up, your AD must cripple the most dangerous enemy fighters like Thunderbolts or Mustangs. After they have lost some strength, kill them with your fighters, while the attacking Stukas must fly to safety/out of view. After three to five turns of good weather the enemy fighters should be all killed and some of the AI bombers as well. Stukas can act now freely and fulfill their role: as flying artillery in advance of your tanks.
This tactic has one big disadvantage: The Stukas play only a very little role within the first five turns - you have to compensate this through preemtive surpressive artillery fire (SPGs) and clever attacks of your battlehardened core units.

Cheers,
Storyteller

[starbird]

So tell us your budget and starting troops, or even better, uploading your save file somewhere.
I'm still a little bit optimistic about it.

And my suggestion, dont worry too much about elite or not. Saving some money from elite-reinforcement might break the deal.

[Storyteller]

@Budget and starting troops/upload save file: Will do later on.

[Obersturmbannfuhrer]

Hi everyone!

I played the campaign on "General" till the last scenario, the US West Coast... which I cannot win. Whatever strategy I use, I always cannot take San Francisco within the turn limit. The best try so far: I just would have needed one more turn to win.

My most successfull setup so far:

1. Two army attack groups, one smaller defensive group.

The first group consits of:

2x Elite Tiger II
1x Veteran Jagdtiger
1x Veteran Panther G
2x Hummel SPGs
1x Wurfrahmen (Nebelwerfer)
2x Ostwind
1x Scout Tank
2x Crack Infantry units
and the Rail Gun

The second group consits of:

3x Elite Panther G units
1x Wirbelwind
1x Wurfrahmen (Nebelwerfer)
1x Scout Tank
1x Crack Infantry unit
1x Brigde Pioneers

The third, defensive group consits of:

the AUX Stug III, Hetzer, Panzer IV and one of my Core Veteran Infantry units.

The Luftwaffe forces:

2x Me-262
2x Ta-152
2x Bf-410
3x Ju-87
1x Ju-188 (Elite with 14 units in reserve to destroy naval vessels!!!)

The battleplan:

While the first group moves straight west to Los Angeles and goes north from there to San Francisco, the second group is heading north-west to take Seattle and turns south to San Francisco, after Seattle is taken. The third group takes a defensive position near the starting position, to repulse the attack of combined US ground forces from north. After this, I send them north to take a couple of US cities to gain more prestige. I don't send them to the coast, because the units are realtivly weak and the way to the coast is very long, so they won't make any difference there anyway.

My main problems are the US Pershing tanks. I kill them all, but it takes way too much time to destroy them all without serious losses.
My second problem are the anti-air guns in L.A. and they bay area around S.F.. My Luftwaffe is able to shoot down all of the US Airforce and destroy the Navy, but losing to much strength to the AA guns. And I cannot get to all of the guns in time, because of the Pershings and entrenched AT guns.
Third problem is, the Stukas (Ju-87) have to fight for some turns in the east, because third group is not strong enough, to fight off the final US tank assault on their own.

I m trying to beat this last scenario for several days now with different setups and strategies, but I cannot win. I even replayed former battles, to spare more key units for the final scenario.

Any ideas or suggestions to it? Otherwise I'm going to loose my mind about this game.

Cheers,
Storyteller

I uploaded my entire us west campaign from (deploy)turn to (divisive victory)turn. I have played level 3 colonel (and won in 14 turns, capture all northren cities), so i had a litte bit more prestige and better units than yours, but i hope that this is going to help you design a strategy.

http://www.2shared.com/file/bLvU2Own/uswest.html

[SardaukarCRO]

hm....i'm also on the USA west coast and it seems u don't have enough ground power to have a decisive victory

i have:
2x wehrmacht 43 infantry (4 stars)
2x grenadier 43 infantry (4 stars)
2x pioniere 43 infantry (one 4 stars, one 3 stars)

8x Tiger II tanks (3 of them SE units)
3x Maus tanks (non-experienced)

3x artillery (in trucks)
3x artillery (no trucks) - not on a computer where i play PzC, so can't tell exactly their names, but they're all upgraded to the best models

6 (or 7) figters all upgraded to the best model
3 stuka bombers
2 strategic bombers

[AgentX]

hm....i'm also on the USA west coast and it seems u don't have enough ground power to have a decisive victory

i have:
2x wehrmacht 43 infantry (4 stars)
2x grenadier 43 infantry (4 stars)
2x pioniere 43 infantry (one 4 stars, one 3 stars)

8x Tiger II tanks (3 of them SE units)
3x Maus tanks (non-experienced)

3x artillery (in trucks)
3x artillery (no trucks) - not on a computer where i play PzC, so can't tell exactly their names, but they're all upgraded to the best models

6 (or 7) figters all upgraded to the best model
3 stuka bombers
2 strategic bombers

Decisive Victory isn't too important as you still continue with the Mid West map regardless. If you want the DV for the extra prestige, then I'd say your Maus tanks are really slow with only 3 movement. For US East Coast, I would get 3 panthers instead of the Maus, then pair them up with 2 of your infantry and 2 artillery. That force goes straight south after landing and goes for the farthest Victory Hexes in the south. The rest of your forces are then broken into 2 divisions (2 infantry, 4 Tiger II's, and 2 artillery each) and they take the northern and eastern VH's.

[SardaukarCRO]

hm....i think u need decisive victory in USA WEST coast remember, we're talking about the WEST coast

i know they are slow, but with rail transportation they can be quickly deployed to the front lines where they can inflict massive damage to most of the tank units.

[AgentX]

hm....i think u need decisive victory in USA WEST coast remember, we're talking about the WEST coast

i know they are slow, but with rail transportation they can be quickly deployed to the front lines where they can inflict massive damage to most of the tank units.

Oops, I misread the comment. Sorry, disregard my post.

[Storyteller]

Okay, I did it at last!

Just played the whole campaign again from the start and I focused on more fighter units, some more towed artillery and at least two level bombers. And when I invaded the east coast, I switched my Stukas to Do 335. Together with my 8 fighter units I had a formidable Luftwaffe. Everything went well, even if west and east coast were no decisive victories, all other battles have been DV.

So thx to all for the gread advices, you made my day.