Supporting unit can not attack after unit has routed

dazzam · Post by **dazzam** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:43 am

I had a pike unit that was in support of another unit in combat. The other unit attacked and then routed the enemy. I then wanted to move my pike unit to attack another unit by moving into the hex the routed unit had been. However I was unable to move into this hex. I've attached a screen shot of the situation and you can see the available hexes the pike unit can move into. However the hex directly forward is not available. Why is that?

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1382 ... toarea.png

hidde · Post by **hidde** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:56 am

What a bummer!
Did you try and click anyway? In case it's just a display hiccup...
Once or twice I have been unable to move to a hex that should be possible to reach but never in an attack situation like that.

dazzam · Post by **dazzam** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:28 am

Yes I clicked the intended hex anyway but it would not move there..bit frustrating when u can't attack like this. Looks like a bug.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:40 am

I have seen this behaviour as well. I concur that it is a bug.

Chris

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:29 am

I've seen it several times too. I think I've posted it before as well.

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:38 pm

Thanks for reporting this. Does anyone have a saved game file where this situation has happened? If so, that would help a lot.

Alternatively, if it happens in a multiplayer game and you close the game at that point, that would be just as good. Just post the name of your opponent and which map/DAG armies it is please.

dazzam · Post by **dazzam** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:50 am

Next time it happens I will pause the game to show you. I've had it happen about 4 times since I last reported it.

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:46 am

Hi, here's an example. Clearly the Cat should be able to charge the LH, but for some reason it isn't being given that option.

The game is in progress, it's between me and StockwellPete. Please look at this promptly because this is an active game and I don't want to delay Pete too long.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If you watch the replay of my moves you will see how this occcurred.

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:43 pm

/bump for post above....

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:35 am

/bump again!

EricS / Slitherine: Please can you acknowledge this post, after all you did ask for a example in progress and here it is. I ask that you either investigate or post that you are too busy or view this as unimportant. I can appreciate that you can't always look at things quicly, but just let me know so we can wait if you need more time or can carry on with the game. I have my opponent chasing me to continue the game and I don't want to delay him unreasonably.

I guess this request supports Dazzam's comments a couple of days ago. We post things in the forum and they often don't even get acknowledged.

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:33 pm

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you. I was away on holiday (a rare event). I guess I've missed this, as we can only access the current and second-last game states, and in both of those the game seems to have moved on since the screenshot.

I've ticked the box to be notified when a reply is posted, so if the problem repeats, do post here again and I'll try and get back quickly.

Eric

dazzam · Post by **dazzam** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:58 pm

Hi Eric

Hope you had a good break. I wondered if you could also look at a similar problem relating to support in combat. There seems to be some inconsistency in the game mechanism for treating of supporting units in combat and the number of dice used by units with support. I have had examples of a unit in melee with an enemy unit and is also in contact with another unit so on my turn that 2nd unit provides support. In a battle I had a 2nd unit which charged the supporting unit. My understanding was that as this supporting unit had now been invlolved in a combat it should no longer provide support. However it does. It does not happen all the time though so there seems to be an inconsistency. I tried this out also in a situation where the enemy supporting unit was attacked in melee combat ie a friendly unit of mine was in contact with the supporting unit at the start of the turn. The same result can occur. This seems wrong as the supporting unit can engage in combat (either melee or impact) and also provide support. I can give you an example of this in a game file.

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:58 am

The defender should be supported by:

any other BG that the attacker could have melee-attacked instead.

The attacker should be supported by:

BGs that close-combat attacked the defender earlier this player turn, and are still adjacent and not routed
BGs that could yet melee attack the defender this player turn.

If you email the saved game to eric@hexwar.com I'll have a look.

dazzam · Post by **dazzam** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:22 am

Eric I just want to clarify your post on supporting combat.

You mention

'The defender should be supported by:

any other BG that the attacker could have melee-attacked instead.'

However what if that other BG (the supporting unit) has been attacked during that turn?

The Help guide states that

'A supporting battlegroup is:

. Not attacking or being attacked in the current combat. '

However I have played numerous games recently where I have attacked the supporting unit and that unit continued to provide support. I have seen this where I have attacked the supporting unit seperate instances that have involved impact or melee and in both resulted in the supporting unit providing continued support. In these cases it seems to be in direct contradiction to the help guide on how this works. I actually think it use to work ok and when you attacked a supporting unit it no longer provided support but in one of the recent releases this changed.

Can you please clarify

EricS · Post by **EricS** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:40 am

The way the game is implemented right now, the criteria for supporting defenders is purely and simply that they must be one of the other BGs that the attacker could have melee-attacked instead.

It's possible for one defender to be attacked multiple times in a single player turn, so therefore the fact that a BG on the defending side has been attacked already doesn't prevent it from providing support. (Unless you managed to rout it of course.)

In full, the help says:

A supporting battlegroup is:
* Not attacking or being attacked in the current combat.
* Not routing.
* Adjacent to a battlegroup that is attacking or being attacked in the current combat.

I don't think the help is really saying one way or another whether involvement in earlier combats prevents defenders from providing support. Maybe it needs to be clarified.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:09 pm

EricS wrote:The way the game is implemented right now, the criteria for supporting defenders is purely and simply that they must be one of the other BGs that the attacker could have melee-attacked instead.

It's possible for one defender to be attacked multiple times in a single player turn, so therefore the fact that a BG on the defending side has been attacked already doesn't prevent it from providing support. (Unless you managed to rout it of course.)

In full, the help says:
A supporting battlegroup is:
* Not attacking or being attacked in the current combat.
* Not routing.
* Adjacent to a battlegroup that is attacking or being attacked in the current combat.
I don't think the help is really saying one way or another whether involvement in earlier combats prevents defenders from providing support. Maybe it needs to be clarified.

The help would definitely benefit from being expanded to explain support more clearly.

Chris

dazzam · Post by **dazzam** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:12 pm

Thanks for clarifying Eric. It would seem that the term 'Not attacking or being attacked in the current combat.' is therefore redundant. Intuitively I would have thought that the support rules are designed to reflect the increased odds of victory in combat for the side that had more troops committed. The way the game is implemented right now however does not reflect that situation. It seems an anomaly that if I have a one on one combat situation my odds of victory are increased by charging the defending unit (thereby providing support). However if I am face with a one on two situation my odds are not increased by charging the supporting unit unless I attack that unit. It just doesn't seem right.