Non flank charges

[zoltan]

B and C are in close combat. Is A permitted to declare a charge on C?

A's front rank bases are completely behind the line extending C's frontage. However A is closer than 1 MU to C. Page 56 says, "For a charge to qualify as a flank charge, it cannot include a wheel unless the charging battle group starts its move with its nearest point at least 1 MU away from the battle group being charged".

I read this as to mean that A is not precluded from charging. However its charge will not "qualify as" a flank charge: meaning, C will not drop a cohesion level and A will not automatically fight at ++.

A is still permitted to wheel slightly in order that its front corner contacts the side edge of C's second rank in accordance with bullet b) at the bottom of page 52. This will count as a frontal (non flank) charge. Impact will be fought as normal. A will then line up in side edge to side edge contact with C and fight as an overlap to B during the melee phase.

I guess an alternative reading would be that because A is too close to C to comply with the flank charge rules it is not permitted to charge at all. Another view might be that because all of C's bases are already fighting in close combat, C is not permitted to charge at all but can only line up with C in the manoeuvre phase as an overlap.

How say you?

[kevinj]

Yes, as you have quoted from page 56 you cannot flank charge C because A is too close to wheel. Assuming C is 2 ranks deep you cannot hit the flank as a frontal charge as these bases are alreadyvin combat. So probably the answer is no, A cannot charge C. You could probably slide A into an overlap position though.

[david53]

If its 2 ranks deep its not a flank charge, so it would fall back into a overlap position as Kevin stated.

[nikgaukroger]

Yes, as you have quoted from page 56 you cannot flank charge C because A is too close to wheel. Assuming C is 2 ranks deep you cannot hit the flank as a frontal charge as these bases are alreadyvin combat. So probably the answer is no, A cannot charge C. You could probably slide A into an overlap position though.

I think Kevin has got it right here.

If, however, C was 3+ ranks deep A could charge one of the ranks beyond the 2nd, but this would still not qualify as a flank charge as it would have started within 1MU - and so would be fought as if contacting the front and then A would conform into an overlap position.

I guess the main point you were fishing for is that yes you can charge with a wheel if you start within 1MU of the flank, however, it does not count as a flank charge with the cohesion drop, etc. - but as Kevin points out certain ranks are not allowable targets for non-flank/rear charges.

[zoltan]

I guess the main point you were fishing for is that yes you can charge with a wheel if you start within 1MU of the flank, however, it does not count as a flank charge with the cohesion drop, etc. - but as Kevin points out certain ranks are not allowable targets for non-flank/rear charges.

Yes, the main point I was fishing for is whether or not A can declare a charge at all when it is within 1 MU of the flank. The conclusion is that yes it can but only if there is a valid target base available. In other words it cannot declare a charge on a second rank base if that base is already contributing to the combat to its front (which was in fact the case when this situation arose).

If C had a third rank, A could charge it by wheeling slightly and stopping as soon as A's leading corner contacts C. After concluding the impact phase the view seems to be that A would then be moved all the way back to a line extending C's front rank, alongside B, to fight as an overlap in melee.

[hazelbark]

Unsurprisingly Nik is correct here.

[nikgaukroger]

If C had a third rank, A could charge it by wheeling slightly and stopping as soon as A's leading corner contacts C. After concluding the impact phase the view seems to be that A would then be moved all the way back to a line extending C's front rank, alongside B, to fight as an overlap in melee.

Don't have rules to hand, however, I don't think it would need to go back all the way to extend C's front - it need only move as far as it needs to get into an overlap position which can be side edge to side edge.

[kal5056]

New wrinkle.

The unit which is charged is a file of Pike. The 3rd rank is charged.
Does it count its POA's as if 4 deep? (++)

or as 2 deep (+)

Gino
SMAC

[elysiumsolutions@fsmail.n]

This has been covered previously on other threads.
It counts as a frontal charge so all 4 ranks fight.

Paul

[nikgaukroger]

This has been covered previously on other threads.
It counts as a frontal charge so all 4 ranks fight.

Paul

Indeed