Idea for some form of corps structure.

Johninja · Post by **Johninja** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:32 pm

I am currently having a little trouble organising my troops into divisions before battles and was thinking it may be a good idea to have some way of grouping them all together. A little like the total war hotkey system. I also think it would help to identify certain units easier helping immersion.

Branching off from that you could also appoint lieutenants to lead divisions perhaps instead of the current hero system. Maybe even give them certain attacking or defensive stats bonuses.

Fritz · Post by **Fritz** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:33 pm

I think this would make the game too complicated.

Johninja · Post by **Johninja** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:39 pm

Well most people already organise thier units into three divisions so i doubt it would make things any harder at the basic level. In fact i think being able to organise/find your troops better and have certain objectives for each division would make the game easier IMO. Of course you could just have one super division like you do currently if you wish.

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:46 pm

Game needs to be simple or else it is not fun.

Just think of all the new young kids we are trying to get to play this game in place of First Person Shooter.

Fritz · Post by **Fritz** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:51 pm

Razz1 wrote:Just think of all the new young kids we are trying to get to play this game in place of First Person Shooter.

I guess most Panzer Corps Players are adults. Since if you havent played the old Panzer General you probably wont like this game.

Vaughn · Post by **Vaughn** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:24 pm

There is a pretty good chance that you are right and that most current players are adults. But, I believe there is a market for strategy games across generations.

A certain percentage of young people are going to be attracted to strategy games and this is a good gateway game for them. PG on the Playstation was my introduction to the whole genre. Although I don't work in the industry, it seems that keeping it simple as a board game is a good idea to attract new players to the entire genre.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:43 pm

Fritz wrote:
Razz1 wrote:Just think of all the new young kids we are trying to get to play this game in place of First Person Shooter.
I guess most Panzer Corps Players are adults. Since if you havent played the old Panzer General you probably wont like this game.

I never played PG but am addicted to PC. I never knew PG existed.

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:09 pm

Better later than never.

With PC it's like if you're playing PG.

Johninja · Post by **Johninja** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:55 pm

So haveing a tab I could choose to put certain units under if i wanted would somehow make the game too complicated for the kids?

even a way of holding down control and selecting the units i wanted and hotlinking them too a number on the keyboard would make the game harder?

AgentX · Post by **AgentX** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:06 pm

Johninja wrote:So haveing a tab I could choose to put certain units under if i wanted would somehow make the game too complicated for the kids?

even a way of holding down control and selecting the units i wanted and hotlinking them too a number on the keyboard would make the game harder?

I guess it's possible to do that, but I'm just wondering what the benefit would be. Sure, it makes great sense to have a "Group" key in an RTS game, but it just doesn't seem to make much sense for a TBS. You can only select one unit at a time, so you'd never be able to select a "Group" anyways. If you want to put units into groups, I would just use the Rename function and name your units to reflect it. Something like, "Group 1-1st Pz", "Group 1-2nd Pz", "Group 1-1st Inf", etc.

Johninja · Post by **Johninja** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:10 pm

For example. I like to seperate my units into 3 divisions like so.

Rigid
1st Rigid inf.
2nd Rigid inf.
3rd Rigid inf.
1st Rigid art.
1st Rigid Panzer

Blitz
1st Blitz inf.
2nd Blitz inf.
1st Blitz art.
1st. Blitz Panzer
1st Blitz Recon

Commando
1st Commando inf.
1st Commando art.
1st Commando panzer

So if there was a tab that i could seperate them into in the unit view it would make things a lot easier.

adrianoku · Post by **adrianoku** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:13 pm

I don'think is a question of making the game harder, is the form of approaching the game which is "simple", few rules ... and this game is perfect! ( not meaning that it's simple, also chess have few rules ... ). If one wants a more organized game (with division structure, leader assigned to division and so on) simply this it's not the good one! I also like organizing my troops and i 've found this way ... renaming! At the end of every unit's name I write the division number ( 13th Inf. 1DIV for example), easy way or not?

texican · Post by **texican** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:41 pm

Color the divisional units slightly differently from other units divisions, so you can tell them apart, then impart a -1 initiative penalty when a units fights and is not within 3 hexes of another unit of the same division?

Might represent command control to an extent. Also, could say that taking replacements and refueling/rearming has to meet the above requirement to work.

Johninja · Post by **Johninja** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:50 pm

texican wrote:Color the divisional units slightly differently from other units divisions, so you can tell them apart, then impart a -1 initiative penalty when a units fights and is not within 3 hexes of another unit of the same division?

Might represent command control to an extent. Also, could say that taking replacements and refueling/rearming has to meet the above requirement to work.

Nice ideas man. I like the divisional HQ one for supplys especialy. It seems the majority of folks here want to keep it simple though which is fine by me. Maybe they have a point. A lot of games start out simple and fun but after a few incarnations turn into somthing that more resembles hard work. I can always go play AACW if i want complex army structures to deal with.

Johninja · Post by **Johninja** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:59 pm

AgentX wrote: I guess it's possible to do that, but I'm just wondering what the benefit would be. Sure, it makes great sense to have a "Group" key in an RTS game, but it just doesn't seem to make much sense for a TBS. You can only select one unit at a time, so you'd never be able to select a "Group" anyways. If you want to put units into groups, I would just use the Rename function and name your units to reflect it. Something like, "Group 1-1st Pz", "Group 1-2nd Pz", "Group 1-1st Inf", etc.

Sure i can rename them. It would make things simpler just to hold down control and select them to be shown in an individual tab though.

The benefits? Well it would make them a hell of a lot easier to place together at the start of a battle for one. I could also browse though my individual divisions when deciding which needs upgrades or which units were lost in a battle/purchasing new units. I also think it would be nice to stare at my commando division for a few minutes just because i like the look of it.

dclements9 · Post by **dclements9** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:36 pm

I am up to I think 28 core units and so far I don't find it difficult to scroll through my core units during deployment.

This enhancement wouldn't me.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:42 pm

If we could add these power user features without impacting the core game at all it might be nice but they are tending to push the game in a more complex direction and there are other games that already do this such as War in the East, Decisive campaigns etc. I prefer to sopend time refining what we have and adding more content than adding complexity.

Xerkis · Post by **Xerkis** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:15 pm

And what's wrong with the old if you want to use it, go ahead - if you don't want to use it, then don't?

Some way to group the units would be nice to have.

I have thought many of time that if there was a "simple" sort by unit name button on the deployment phase. Then all you need to do is rename the units - starting with the group name - and the resort takes care of it for you.

......... simple?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:26 am

The issue is either the game is designed for the feature or not. If there is no reason to use command and control features then why would players bother. If there is an advantage then it makes the game harder for people who don't. You need to have the UI available all the time even for people who don't want it, cluttering thigns up with new buttons that are not needed and making the game look more complex. The game needs to be rebalanced for the new features. The AI needs to be re-written to deal with the new features. Having options is far more work than making it work one way or the other as you have to do both, balance for both, and have a UI to switch between.

This is all against the core design philosophy of the game and so unlikely any complexity of this type will be added.

Xerkis · Post by **Xerkis** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:03 pm

iainmcneil wrote:The issue is either the game is designed for the feature or not. If there is no reason to use command and control features then why would players bother. If there is an advantage then it makes the game harder for people who don't. You need to have the UI available all the time even for people who don't want it, cluttering thigns up with new buttons that are not needed and making the game look more complex. The game needs to be rebalanced for the new features. The AI needs to be re-written to deal with the new features. Having options is far more work than making it work one way or the other as you have to do both, balance for both, and have a UI to switch between.

This is all against the core design philosophy of the game and so unlikely any complexity of this type will be added.

Maybe you misunderstood my suggestion – most likely because I wasn’t total clear on it.

I’m not talking about changing the entire UI. I agree with you that too many buttons would not be where you want to go. This would only be when the unit list is brought up; so only on that list. Perhaps forget the button idea – a check box in the game options or a hot key – that would surely keep it out of the way and allow those that like to group there units do so without taking away from the UI.

And you’re also correct in saying it has no real advantage in game play. But players would use it – a lot of players would. Is there a true game advantage to being able to rename your units? No, there isn’t – but that option is there and players do use it.

Take a poll of the paying and possibly will pay customers if some sort of grouping of the units would be a plus to have or not. I’m sure that most would like some way to do this. Reason being – and to use a saying I see from time to time on this forum coming from the mods and devs – that would reflect closer to history.

I assume that your reply is directed mostly to me – since I have the only post between your last post and this one.

So with that assumption – and with all respect – I understand what you are trying to say, but some of it makes no sense from a technical point of view. Why would you have to rebalance a game of re-write the AI because of a sort option? Was special coding put in to the AI or game balancing when the rename feature was added? No, I’m sure it wasn’t. A hot key to sort the unit list would take very little programming at all; something that can be knocked out before the programmer finishes his first cup of coffee in the morning. There is nothing complex about how a list is displayed – and that’s all I was suggesting. A hot key to display the unit list sorted by name

......… Some of the other ideas that I’ve read; yeah you’re right, those would be more time consuming to program and would take from the look of the UI.