Stalingrad

Klatu · Post by **Klatu** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:07 pm

I captured Stalingrad and all cities except in Caucasus. Yet I got dinged for loss, rather than simple victory. Was that because two of the cities I captured with non-German units? And has anyone captured Caucasus? If so, how so?

Xerkis · Post by **Xerkis** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:39 pm

I did just the opposite last night. Got everything but Stalingrad. I got slaughtered.

I brought the rail gun up way too late. Used it in support of some of the more minor objectives and by the time I brought it east – it was too late.

Caucasus I just bombed it to piece until nothing was left, then waltzed in.

Rudankort · Post by **Rudankort** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:04 pm

Klatu wrote:I captured Stalingrad and all cities except in Caucasus. Yet I got dinged for loss, rather than simple victory. Was that because two of the cities I captured with non-German units? And has anyone captured Caucasus? If so, how so?

This is a bug, confirmed.

siepie · Post by **siepie** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:47 pm

I am just about to start the stalingrad battle (1939 - 1945 campaign) does this bug mean this is the last battle then, you always loose, thus you get fired?

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:50 pm

siepie wrote:I am just about to start the stalingrad battle (1939 - 1945 campaign) does this bug mean this is the last battle then, you always loose, thus you get fired?

No the path for Stalingrad is the same for marginal voctory and lose....just effects the amount of prestige you get

siepie · Post by **siepie** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:03 pm

extra pressure for a decisive win then, I have not been able to achieve any decisive vicotry yet (I play on the hardest difficulty level) only (easily) a marginal victory everywhere.

I have to figure out the game workings a bit better, plan the battles a bit better I guess!

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:17 pm

siepie wrote:extra pressure for a decisive win then, I have not been able to achieve any decisive vicotry yet (I play on the hardest difficulty level) only (easily) a marginal victory everywhere.

I have to figure out the game workings a bit better, plan the battles a bit better I guess!

The progression from Stalingrad is the same for a decisive victory too.....its Kursk all the way except if the western allies are sill in the war (you didn't get a decisive at sealion 40) then you get to choose to go to Italy instead...

The campaign progression is in the library

Rudankort · Post by **Rudankort** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:39 pm

siepie wrote:I am just about to start the stalingrad battle (1939 - 1945 campaign) does this bug mean this is the last battle then, you always loose, thus you get fired?

No, decisive victory is possible, by taking all victory hexes as usual, but marginal victory conditions are bugged.

texican · Post by **texican** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:41 pm

In PG, the first time I did the Stalingrad scenario, I was worried because I thought a historical result might be possible.

What if...

The Stalingrad Scenario was renamed Operation Code Blue or Case Blue (whatever it was), and the victory conditions led to scenarios as follows:

Decisive: Moscow '43
Marginal: Kursk
Loss: Stalingrad

By "Stalingrad", I mean a true Stalingrad scenario scaled to the city where your army is trapped within with Soviets and snow all around.

Decisive (i.e., you breakout and hold victory squares in Stalingrad): Moscow '43
Marginal (i.e., you just breakout): Kursk
Loss: you lose your Army and get 3000 points to build a new one in Italy or Bagration or something.

Could have the same thing in Tunisia when they get the Afrika Korps expansion out. A "loss" might mean you escape while your army remains behind and surrenders. Have to build again with green units (like Rommel did).

What all of this does is turn the game into a nailbiter at certain points.

MarsRobert · Post by **MarsRobert** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:50 am

Yeah, I noticed this bug as well. I thought when playing it that in real-life the Germans bit off more than they could chew by attempting to take both Stalingrad and the Caucasus oil fields, so I thought I was being wise by forgetting the Caucasus and just concentrating on the marginal victory conditions. On the minus side even if a marginal victory still lands you at Kursk, you need that extra prestige due to all the upgrades that become available in 1943. On the plus side, I thought the Case Blue scenario was a blast. It played out very much in keeping with history, especially the tough fights at Sevastopol, Voronezh, and Rostov, the steadily lengthening front as the Germans advance, to say nothing of the tough street fighting at Stalingrad. In fact despite the many abstractions in the game design, IMHO the designers definitely kept their eye on history when designing the scenarios.

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:55 am

MarsRobert wrote:Yeah, I noticed this bug as well. I thought when playing it that in real-life the Germans bit off more than they could chew by attempting to take both Stalingrad and the Caucasus oil fields, so I thought I was being wise by forgetting the Caucasus and just concentrating on the marginal victory conditions. On the minus side even if a marginal victory still lands you at Kursk, you need that extra prestige due to all the upgrades that become available in 1943. On the plus side, I thought the Case Blue scenario was a blast. It played out very much in keeping with history, especially the tough fights at Sevastopol, Voronezh, and Rostov, the steadily lengthening front as the Germans advance, to say nothing of the tough street fighting at Stalingrad. In fact despite the many abstractions in the game design, IMHO the designers definitely kept their eye on history when designing the scenarios.

You could always use the Presitge cheat if you fulful the marginal victory conditions at stalingrad to make up the lost points from the game awarding a loss.....I wouldn't call this cheating more correcting a bug

Xerkis · Post by **Xerkis** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:03 pm

Horseman wrote:
MarsRobert wrote:Yeah, I noticed this bug as well. I thought when playing it that in real-life the Germans bit off more than they could chew by attempting to take both Stalingrad and the Caucasus oil fields, so I thought I was being wise by forgetting the Caucasus and just concentrating on the marginal victory conditions. On the minus side even if a marginal victory still lands you at Kursk, you need that extra prestige due to all the upgrades that become available in 1943. On the plus side, I thought the Case Blue scenario was a blast. It played out very much in keeping with history, especially the tough fights at Sevastopol, Voronezh, and Rostov, the steadily lengthening front as the Germans advance, to say nothing of the tough street fighting at Stalingrad. In fact despite the many abstractions in the game design, IMHO the designers definitely kept their eye on history when designing the scenarios.
You could always use the Presitge cheat if you fulful the marginal victory conditions at stalingrad to make up the lost points from the game awarding a loss.....I wouldn't call this cheating more correcting a bug

Never thought of it until now - but yeah, just because you don’t get all objectives it shouldn’t be a loss but a marginal victory.

Perhaps there could be two types of objectives: ones that you must get (or it is a loss) and ones that are “optional” but if you don’t get them it won’t be a decisive win. Certainly not for all scenarios, but Stalingrad would be a perfect place for something like that.

MarsRobert · Post by **MarsRobert** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:12 pm

Horseman wrote:
MarsRobert wrote:Yeah, I noticed this bug as well. I thought when playing it that in real-life the Germans bit off more than they could chew by attempting to take both Stalingrad and the Caucasus oil fields, so I thought I was being wise by forgetting the Caucasus and just concentrating on the marginal victory conditions. On the minus side even if a marginal victory still lands you at Kursk, you need that extra prestige due to all the upgrades that become available in 1943. On the plus side, I thought the Case Blue scenario was a blast. It played out very much in keeping with history, especially the tough fights at Sevastopol, Voronezh, and Rostov, the steadily lengthening front as the Germans advance, to say nothing of the tough street fighting at Stalingrad. In fact despite the many abstractions in the game design, IMHO the designers definitely kept their eye on history when designing the scenarios.
You could always use the Presitge cheat if you fulful the marginal victory conditions at stalingrad to make up the lost points from the game awarding a loss.....I wouldn't call this cheating more correcting a bug

Cool man, now that's thinking outside the box!

I agree totally, in this case it wouldn't really be cheating. Do you by any chance know how much prestige I should add? A thousand, two thousand? Believe I had about 3500 as it stands now.

Horseman · Post by **Horseman** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:34 pm

I have no idea, afaik the presitge awards are set per scenario and I haven't got anywhere near stalingrad in my campaign yet!

MarsRobert · Post by **MarsRobert** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:08 pm

Horseman wrote:I have no idea, afaik the presitge awards are set per scenario and I haven't got anywhere near stalingrad in my campaign yet!

Thanks anyway for the suggestion. I think a thousand sounds like a good round number, it should be enough to do a few more upgrades. Kursk being what it is, I will probably need all the help I can get!

Great game, BTW.

MarsRobert · Post by **MarsRobert** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:55 pm

I found a better cheat to get around the Stalingrad bug. Rather than ending your final turn (and thus ending the scenario) in the normal way, invoke the end scenario cheat (endscn) with a value of '1' for minor victory.

BTW, speaking of Stalingrad, anyone see the German film from the early 90's? It was produced by the same team who did 'Das Boot'. It was really good, and very realistic. The Potomnik airstrip scene, especially, was amazing. The only thing even slightly negative I would say about the film is that it is very heavily laden with German guilt and angst about the war. Speaking of movies about Stalingrad, I thought 'Enemy at the Gates' was really good too. Ed Harris was great as the icy cold German sniper sparing with the Russian Jude Law, and Bob Hoskins was perfect as Commissar Nikita Khrushchev. Still in all though, the best movie ever about the Eastern front was Sam Peckinpah's 'Cross of Iron'. Great cast, great screenplay, and the harrowing battle scenes were the steel breeze! One of the greatest war films ever made.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:02 pm

MarsRobert wrote:BTW, speaking of Stalingrad, anyone see the German film from the early 90's? It was produced by the same team who did 'Das Boot'. It was really good, and very realistic. The Potomnik airstrip scene, especially, was amazing. The only thing even slightly negative I would say about the film is that it is very heavily laden with German guilt and angst about the war. Speaking of movies about Stalingrad, I thought 'Enemy at the Gates' was really good too. Ed Harris was great as the icy cold German sniper sparing with the Russian Jude Law, and Bob Hoskins was perfect as Commissar Nikita Khrushchev. Still in all though, the best movie ever about the Eastern front was Sam Peckinpah's 'Cross of Iron'. Great cast, great screenplay, and the harrowing battle scenes were the steel breeze! One of the greatest war films ever made.

I did. The part I remember most about that Stalingrad film? The guy getting cut in half by the tank round.

MarsRobert · Post by **MarsRobert** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:40 pm

Kerensky wrote:
MarsRobert wrote:BTW, speaking of Stalingrad, anyone see the German film from the early 90's? It was produced by the same team who did 'Das Boot'. It was really good, and very realistic. The Potomnik airstrip scene, especially, was amazing. The only thing even slightly negative I would say about the film is that it is very heavily laden with German guilt and angst about the war. Speaking of movies about Stalingrad, I thought 'Enemy at the Gates' was really good too. Ed Harris was great as the icy cold German sniper sparing with the Russian Jude Law, and Bob Hoskins was perfect as Commissar Nikita Khrushchev. Still in all though, the best movie ever about the Eastern front was Sam Peckinpah's 'Cross of Iron'. Great cast, great screenplay, and the harrowing battle scenes were the steel breeze! One of the greatest war films ever made.
I did. The part I remember most about that Stalingrad film? The guy getting cut in half by the tank round.

Oh yeah! That scene where the Germans were defending the entrenchments from a Russian tank assault was great.

I know I'm getting a bit of-topic here, but the best thing I ever read on Stalingrad was the final chapters of Paul Carel's great 'Hitler Moves East'. I feel the Russian winter every time I think about it.

In fact I would go so far as to stay that Carel's two Eastern front books ('Hitler Moves East' and 'Scorched Earth') are the best military history books I've ever read.

OMG! I love Panzer Corps! It is damned addictive. Not since Sid Meier's 'Civilization' series have I played something so compelling and so much fun. Bring on Kursk!

ElIndio · Post by **ElIndio** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:41 am

This is actually a nice bug in a way.

I pretty much took everything on the map apart from the last port (furthest away) in the Caucasus. I was easily in for a marginal victory but the "bug" had me play the full 28 turns, so I rampaged around the map taking pretty much everything and finished with about 5,000 prestige points

.

Plenty of shiny new Tigers to buy for Kursk I think, no doubt I will need them!

Great map as well, though I like the way you have the stack of Soviet artillery on the other side of the Volga river, nice touch.

impar · Post by **impar** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:52 pm

MarsRobert wrote:BTW, speaking of Stalingrad, anyone see the German film from the early 90's?

Yep. And will watch it again whenever the wife isnt around.
You might like googling "panzer 88".

Stalingrad

Stalingrad

Re: Stalingrad

but is this the end of the campaign then?

Re: but is this the end of the campaign then?

thanks for clearing that up!

Re: thanks for clearing that up!

Re: but is this the end of the campaign then?