Cavalry instead of Lighthorse

[ravenflight]

Hi All,

Has anyone had much success running 4pack Cavalry instead of 4pack light horse in an army like the Huns (for example)?

They are a LOT less manoeuvrable, but also pack a lot more punch.

Any thoughts? Whenever I've tried to use things like "Mounted Crossbow Cavalry" they do fairly poorly, but I think that's (for the most part) because they don't have any friends. In an army like the Huns they would have LOADS of friends!

[david53]

Hi All,

Has anyone had much success running 4pack Cavalry instead of 4pack light horse in an army like the Huns (for example)?

They are a LOT less manoeuvrable, but also pack a lot more punch.

Any thoughts? Whenever I've tried to use things like "Mounted Crossbow Cavalry" they do fairly poorly, but I think that's (for the most part) because they don't have any friends. In an army like the Huns they would have LOADS of friends!

Lots of success with the Mongols using Cavalry Bow/Sword against knights. It helps having the cavalry on the flanks and the Light Horse in the centre.

[lonehorseman]

I run 2x 4 Cv/Unprot/Sup/Dril/Bow/Sword instead of LH in my Mongol list, wonderful to take on enemy LH and at exactly the same POA against Knights as the armoured Cv.

[ravenflight]

Lots of success with the Mongols using Cavalry Bow/Sword against knights. It helps having the cavalry on the flanks and the Light Horse in the centre.

Thanks David,

I was actually thinking of going something with absolutely no light horse.

Considering something like this:

Theory is as follows:
The Ghilman are top notch. They can deal the death blow necessary if the Tribal Cavalry can soften up something like knights etc on the way in.
The Karwah Infantry will form an Alexandrian style 'phalanx' that is pretty tough for things to get past, but aren't going to deal any death blows on their own.
The Tribal Cavalry do the softening up and/or destroy the enemy light horse on the flanks.

649 points

3 Troop Generals - :

1 Karwah Infantry HF Protected Average Undrilled - Defensive Spearmen - 8
2 Karwah Infantry HF Protected Average Undrilled - Defensive Spearmen - 8
3 Karwah Infantry HF Protected Average Undrilled - Defensive Spearmen - 8
4 Afghan Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - 8
5 Ghilman Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
6 Ghilman Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
7 Ghilman Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
8 Turkish Tribal Cavalry Cv Protected Average Undrilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
9 Turkish Tribal Cavalry Cv Protected Average Undrilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
10 Turkish Tribal Cavalry Cv Protected Average Undrilled Bow Swordsmen - 4

[lonehorseman]

I can see what the list is supposed to do, looks like it could work, though I like the LH to slow folks down and the 5" extra deployment is nice. Let me know how it fares. Might try somethng similar with Mongols sometime if it does indeed work.

[kevinj]

In my experience, if you want to use cavalry in this way it's best if they are Superior. Mongol armies are a good option if you want to go down the shooty cav route, or Hungarians if you want a Knight strike force. With both though, I've found having some LH to be worthwhile, either to pin an enemy back on one flank or just for the increased manoeuvrability.

[david53]

The down side of average cavalry is when shooting in one rank as they must you will more than likely take enough hits to test and being average that not re-rolling ones do tend to count.

Dave

[deadtorius]

I have taken to running my Skythian horse archers as cav instead of light horse in my Selucid army. Unfortunately I can only get 4 of them in the list, but they are much more useful as cav than as LH. I run them in a single line so off on a flank where they operate without any rear support. They have the ability to shoot up a target nicely and can also fall back if anything big and nasty comes their way. They also keep enemy LH at bay and if all else fails they can close into melee if absolutely necessary with their swords they at least end up at a - instead of -- and get 4 dice instead of just 2. Sometimes you get lucky and your opponent regrets pushing their luck by charging you.

[ravenflight]

In my experience, if you want to use cavalry in this way it's best if they are Superior. Mongol armies are a good option if you want to go down the shooty cav route, or Hungarians if you want a Knight strike force. With both though, I've found having some LH to be worthwhile, either to pin an enemy back on one flank or just for the increased manoeuvrability.

Agreed, and it's been my experience that the inability of the cav I've run in the past to 'turn 180 and get out of dodge' can be huge, however in this particular case I think it's different. They would have friends around and a higher likelihood of a general (or 2) to help out. In the past my cav has been a side show and a huge investment is made if you throw a general at it, but in this case the almost guarantee of having a general nearby to help out will (I hope) turn the tide.

Agreed abouyt the superior, but my army can't have superior except for the Ghilman... and I've already taken as many as I can...

[ravenflight]

The down side of average cavalry is when shooting in one rank as they must you will more than likely take enough hits to test and being average that not re-rolling ones do tend to count.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I'm thinking that you're mostly right, but it also depends on their job at the time. You CAN run them 2 deep at an increased risk, but depending on the target it may be the thing to do. You would want to make sure they aren't alone and pick the situation to do this, but you still CAN .

[ravenflight]

I have taken to running my Skythian horse archers as cav instead of light horse in my Selucid army. Unfortunately I can only get 4 of them in the list, but they are much more useful as cav than as LH. I run them in a single line so off on a flank where they operate without any rear support. They have the ability to shoot up a target nicely and can also fall back if anything big and nasty comes their way. They also keep enemy LH at bay and if all else fails they can close into melee if absolutely necessary with their swords they at least end up at a - instead of -- and get 4 dice instead of just 2. Sometimes you get lucky and your opponent regrets pushing their luck by charging you.

A little while ago I did exactly this with my Ghilman. The disrupted enemy spear charged me and ended up being fragged on impact then general died which routed two units and disrupted a third. Was a good day to be a Ghilman

[ravenflight]

Ok David,

The end result of the game last night is that my Ghilman supported by Turkish cavalry went through my enemy's superior medium foot like they were't there, and he did the same with is medium foot offensive spearmen against my defensive spearmen. Too much luck to really decide if it worked or not.

Sorry I can't give more detail... I'll have to wait until I've played a few more games.

[Fluffy]

I like to do this with Skythians too, I find one group mixed in with some LH gives a little extra shooting dice and is handy if you want to be mean to enemy LH (I go for 2LH:1CV, but for what you're suggesting I'd consider 1,5:1 or 1:1).

[Polkovnik]

649 points

3 Troop Generals - :

1 Karwah Infantry HF Protected Average Undrilled - Defensive Spearmen - 8
2 Karwah Infantry HF Protected Average Undrilled - Defensive Spearmen - 8
3 Karwah Infantry HF Protected Average Undrilled - Defensive Spearmen - 8
4 Afghan Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - 8
5 Ghilman Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
6 Ghilman Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
7 Ghilman Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
8 Turkish Tribal Cavalry Cv Protected Average Undrilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
9 Turkish Tribal Cavalry Cv Protected Average Undrilled Bow Swordsmen - 4
10 Turkish Tribal Cavalry Cv Protected Average Undrilled Bow Swordsmen - 4

What army is this ?

[nikgaukroger]

Ghurid.

[Polkovnik]

Ghurid.

OK thanks. What do the infantry look like ? It's one of the books I haven't got, but I might be able to field the army.

[ravenflight]

Ghurid.

OK thanks. What do the infantry look like ? It's one of the books I haven't got, but I might be able to field the army.

Nobody knows. They don't even know what the Karwah is, but have a description.

My figures have a huge pavise thing rolled in front of a bunch of spearmen

http://fanaticus.org/discussion/showthr ... 466&page=3

[nikgaukroger]

Nobody knows. They don't even know what the Karwah is, but have a description.

And from EotD:

The enigmatic karwah has been interpreted in the past as a bullock or buffalo hide stuffed with
hay or straw and rolled along in front of troops to protect them from enemy arrows. G.H. Raverty's
translation of the Tabaqat-i-Nasiri offers the perhaps more plausible interpretation that it was
infantry body armour made of rawhide with cotton padding. “The troops of Ghur have a method,
in the practise of fighting on foot, of making a certain article of one fold of raw bullock-hide, over
both sides of which they lay cotton, and over all draw figured coarse cotton cloth, after the form of
a screen [or breast work], and the name of that article of defence is karwah. When the foot
soldiers of Ghur place this [screen] upon their shoulders, they are completely covered from head
to foot by it; and when they close their ranks, they appear like unto a wall, and no missile or arms
can take any effect on it, on account of the quantity of cotton with which it is stuffed.”