bases in combat:moving 2nd rankers

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:36 pm

If a BG of knights(x) are 3x1 and in combat with some HF(Y) thusly:

_%X*
1XXX2
_y
_y
_y
_y

And the rear rank is UNABLE to move to positions (1) or (2) due to lack of space, can it ever move to positions (%) or (*)?

If so when?

Please provide page numbers not opinions...

TIA,

Madcam

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:37 pm

Moderators please move this to the rules sections.

Sorry.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:52 am

The rear rank base sits tight until:
A) the HF break
B) the rear rank base is called upon to step forward to replace a lost front rank base

peteratjet · Post by **peteratjet** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:57 am

I don't think the rules have much to say about re-deploying a rear-rank base not engaged in combat, apart from the specific cases of filling a gap or expanding . It rarely matters, except when it does ...

The most common reason to care is when you need some space behind to allow room for knights to fall-back from steady foot. In the absence of any rules saying you ~can~ move a rear-rank base sideways, I guess you can't.

I generally rely on a lucky death roll culling a base so the rest of the battle group has that vital MU it needs to avoid a disruption.

Or, I suppose, I could leave enough room in the first place.

Nah, crazy talk .

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:37 am

Ah, Mr Madcam, hope you're well.

There is the 'feeding in' section in movement that allows you to, say, expand by one file, or shift a file from one flank to the other to fight. But that section, generally says that you can shift if it gets you more dice or POAs.

Shuffling the second rank of knights around doesn't do that. So there's nothing in the rules that would let you do this.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:29 am

@Graham. All is well here in Ohio. Been getting a few games in now after a protracted time away. Having fun with it too if truth be known. Im still wanting to get over to the UK for "dollies".... One day.

My worthy opponent (mike) is getting older faster than I and likes to push the envelope - especially when getting his butt whipped.

For the record, Im sure the knight are NOT allowed to shift around the second rank and can only move under the "Feeding more bases" section as described therein. However, the bullet points in that section are in need of a re-format as one could (has) argued that they can if they follow page 73 2nd bullet - "Troops can thus be moved out from the rear ranks that are not fighting, or from an unengaged end of a line to the other end..."

Since the second rank is a "line" of one, goes his argument, he could move the knight from the middle of the second rank to either end or the second rank....

And yes this was to avoid going fragged by not having room to break off.... His game is getting sloppy!

Madcam.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:06 pm

I believe the line that reads can move people out specifies at the end of the line. Which you say they cannot due. So they could not do this either.

mhohio · Post by **mhohio** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:36 pm

Actually it was the 3rd bullet on page 73 I believe... I don't have the rules in front of me... I thought it said that either at the end of a line or 2nd rank...

berthier · Post by **berthier** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:28 am

The third bullet addresses contracting a BG in order to feed more bases into a contributing position.

The 2nd bullet is a clarification of the 1st on page 73, which says

* Only bases that fulfill the following criteria can be moved:
- They must not be in a position to contribute to combat prior to being moved (with dice or by creating a POA).
- They must not have any enemy bases in front edge contact withy them, nor able to fight them as an overlap.
- Moving them must not result in contraction by more than one file on any side of the BG.

Additionally, as this entire section describes "Feeding more bases into an existing melee" I don't believe the intent was to to allow Mike's reformation in this case as the moved base was not moved to feed into the melee.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:37 am

berthier wrote:The third bullet addresses contracting a BG in order to feed more bases into a contributing position.

The 2nd bullet is a clarification of the 1st on page 73, which says

* Only bases that fulfill the following criteria can be moved:
- They must not be in a position to contribute to combat prior to being moved (with dice or by creating a POA).
- They must not have nay enemy bases in front edge contact withy them, nor able to fight them as an overlap.
- Moving them must not result in contraction by more than one file on any side of the BG.

Additionally, as this entire section describes "Feeding more bases into an existing melee" I don't believe the intent was to to allow Mike's reformation in this case as the moved base was not moved to feed into the melee.

Correct.

As I understand it you cannot move bases about in a rear rank ever.

If not in combat at all you can't do it as it is not on the manoeuvre table.

IF in combat, you can feed in more bases by expanding, or by contracting, but there is no rule that allows you to feed in without either contracting or expanding.