Ottomans from a different perspective

lonehorseman · Post by **lonehorseman** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:15 am

I created this Later Ottoman Turkish List for fluff reasons and for historical reasons. I enjoy playing with it and was just wondering how you guys think it would fare in an open competition.

1x CinC TC
2x Subs TC
1x Ally Gen TC

2 BG of 4x Timariots Cv, Arm, Sup, Undrilled, Bow, Sword
1 BG of 2x Qapu Khalqi Cv, Arm, Elite, Drilled, Bow, Sword
1 BG of 4x Azab Handgunners LF, Unprot, Ave, Undrilled, Firearm
1 BG of 4x Jannisary Handgunners LF, Unprot, Sup, Drilled, Firearm
2 BG of 6x Azab Archers LF, Unprot, Poor, Undrilled, Bow
1 BG of 8x Poorly Equipped Levy Mob, Unprot, Poor, Undrilled
2 BG of 4x Akinjis LH, Unprot, Ave, Undrilled, Bow
2 BG of 8x Jannisary Archers MF, Prot, Sup, Drilled, Bow, Sword
1 BG of 2x Bombards Hart, Average, Drilled, Heavy Artillery
1 BG of 4x Serbian Nobles Kn, H-Arm, Sup, Undrilled, Lancer Swordsmen

12x FF
Unprotected Camp

Total 14BG PBI: +1

The idea is to deploy the Bombards and Jannisaries behind the central FF like:
-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-
FF MF MF MF MF HA HA MF MF MF MF FF

The Jannisaries are obviously double ranked. On either flank of this is a BG of Handgunners and LF Archers as well as 1 BG of LH 1 BG of Shooty Cv. The Serbs and the Elite Cv Deploy behind the FF in front of the camp and go where needed from there. Mob deploys to one side of the Camp. I considered exchanging the Mob and 1 BG of the LF Archers to upgrade the CinC to Inspired, or even just the Mob to make him a FC but I feel that the fortifications already give away all initiative so the extra +1/+2 is not really worth it.

On the note of FF mine are based on 30mm bases so as to fit the stakes, ditch, rampart and wooden pavises/pallisade on. Do you think this is going to be a problem for anyone?

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:36 am

In an open comp drop the Mob, FF and Arty. Nodody will go near the FF. Just leaving you there to wither. Spend the points on something peferably manoeuverable and hard. The super MF Imp Ft to support/help your janissaries

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:28 am

Phil's points are valid for a competition. I've seen this configuration used at the club and it's great if the enemy attacks. Unfortunately it is so good that the enemy won't if they know the factors. What you really need is some middleweight, cheap but not rubbish foot to defend the barricades.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:44 pm

Even Azab MF Bow Average behing the fortifications is a serious threat.

Maybe one group of 8 plus the HART and 6 FF

A frontage of 6 with the Artillery fire. That is not something you assault lightly. Especailly with Serbs, Jannisaries and Timariots wandering around.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:18 pm

hazelbark wrote:Even Azab MF Bow Average behing the fortifications is a serious threat.
.

Thats like saying the Maginot line was a threat. FF are never a threat, they are just an obstacle.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:36 pm

philqw78 wrote:
hazelbark wrote:Even Azab MF Bow Average behing the fortifications is a serious threat.
.
Thats like saying the Maginot line was a threat. FF are never a threat, they are just an obstacle.

HA. I take your point. They are a serious threat to attack frontally.

But yes, we would all swing wide.

Another argument for 5x3 tables as historically people seemed to determine to attack these frontally.

Fluffy · Post by **Fluffy** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:01 pm

It's a gimmick (like I said when I played you).

Any player with some sense will go around the FF, but that also means your opponent has to choose between being predictable or suicidal.

peteratjet · Post by **peteratjet** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:06 am

It's a shame really, because that's what the Ottoman's actually did, histrorically. Probably works better in FoGR, where artillery is lethal, and has the range to dominate large sections of the table.

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:50 am

I think you can use FF's very well in the game, but you have to have a winning tactic that works with them. For instance, being able to dominate a section of the table (if well placed) and win the game elsewhere can be good, but as others have said they can just avoid it - so you've got to make sure the points you put into it aren't wasted.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:10 pm

peteratjet wrote:It's a shame really, because that's what the Ottoman's actually did, histrorically. Probably works better in FoGR, where artillery is lethal, and has the range to dominate large sections of the table.

Well they did it particularly on battlefields that were constrained.

Nicopolis is one example. Although I don't recall artillery player any role. (it was 1396) But woods, swamps, marshes constrained a solid portion of the avenue of the German/French advance.

Note there is some suggestion that the Hungarians were not advancing into quite as confiend area. But it is also possible that they were more rearward and not advancing as they didn't think the battle plan was brilliant, but were overrulled by the people with less expereience fighting the Ottomans.

Compared to say Ankara 1402 where whatever Ottoman fortifications may have been present were not nearly as critical as the Timur forces were not channeled into them by terrain.