Proposed change for Norway / Denmark

[Peter Stauffenberg]

In order to encourage the Germans to DoW Denmark and Norway at the same time we could do the following.
1. Norway would not lose any efficiency if Denmark is already conquered when the Germans DoW Norway
2. Norwegian units would have strength 4 instead of 10 if Denmark was still neutral at the same turn Norway was DoW'ed

The Norwegians would have been more likely to mobilize if Denmark was already captured by Germany. So if Germany takes Denmark first then Norway would be as now (except not losing surprise).

If the Germans DoW Denmark and Norway on the same turn then the Norwegian forces are weaker and easier to take out.

[PionUrpo]

Seems like a good idea as well.

[gerones]

I vote yes too.

[schwerpunkt]

In order to encourage the Germans to DoW Denmark and Norway at the same time we could do the following.
1. Norway would not lose any efficiency if Denmark is already conquered when the Germans DoW Norway
2. Norwegian units would have strength 4 instead of 10 if Denmark was still neutral at the same turn Norway was DoW'ed

The Norwegians would have been more likely to mobilize if Denmark was already captured by Germany. So if Germany takes Denmark first then Norway would be as now (except not losing surprise).

If the Germans DoW Denmark and Norway on the same turn then the Norwegian forces are weaker and easier to take out.

I forsee play balance issues with this. I cannot see any Axis player DOWing both countries as the Germans need to base TACs (and possibly a para depending on preference) in northern Denmark to facilitate a fast fall of Norway and protect their naval units. To get those same TACs into position will take two valuable turns so the axis player will either have to launch an unsupported landing near Oslo which will likely take 2 turns to capture the city without air support. Better to suffer the DOW loss penalty in my mind.

Hence, such a change basically will deny the Germans the DOW bonus on Norway. Whats broken currently? Perception? A German DOW on Norway even following Denmark would have been some sort of shock to the Norwegians I suspect. Perhaps the answer is to provide a greater DOW bonus if the axis player DOWs both simultaneously?

[Peter Stauffenberg]

One easy way to do this is to let the garrison strength of each Norwegian and Danish unit be 2 when DoW'ed. The strength would be 10 if the other country has been conquered before the DoW. This to simulate mobilization.

If you sail the German units to invade Norway to Norway the turn before you DoW Denmark and Norway you can easily land on the invasion turn and take out Copenhagen with a single unit. Then the other Germans can drive towards Aalborg and take that city. Since the Germans capture hexes in Denmark then air units can rebase here so they can bombard Norway the following turn.

Norway can max have 5 steps in Oslo the turn after invasion when then Germans can move 2 units adjacent to Oslo. I can't see the Norwegians surviving this with German air support from Denmark.

Both Norway and Denmark will suffer surprise loss because they were attacked on the same turn.

[JimR]

It would be good to see how something like this works in practice. The historical logic of the proposal certainly is sound.

[Morris]

I vote yes .

But Invade Norway in 1940 is usually not a good idea

[peterjfrigate]

Makes sense - I vote yes.