Overlaps

[titanu]

In the picture below the knights facing down the picture have three bases two in a column facing the last infantry base (with a general just behind) and one bases in front to front contact (facing up by mistake!) with the 'General leading' flag just behind their base.

The question is about the second knight in the column acting as an over-lap against the knights with the green, white and red horses , just above the yelloe dice.

[philqw78]

IMO it is an overlap. It cannot provide dice elsewhere and is in side edge contact with the front rank of enemy fighting.

[titanu]

That was how we played it but I was miffed that I could not expand out a file of infantry to where the yellow dice is. This was 'ruled' as an internal overlap.

[zeitoun]

IMO no overlap. You are fighting as you're conformed. SO you cannot overlap between the two bases.

Can the Knight may leave the combat to the Spearmen and conform only to the ennemy's Knight as the bases can conform to an overlap position?? then deployed to their left ??

[grahambriggs]

Yes, I think you played this correctly. The rear rank knight is in partial edge contact with the flank of your knights and is not fighting or contributing a POA to the front. The overlap position is at the end of your Knight battle group, so that's a valid overlap.

You can't overlap an enemy BG except at the end so your foot can't feed in to get a second overlap.

[petedalby]

I have a lot of sympathy for you on this one Bob but it appears to be correct. Page 86 - first bullet point under 'Overlaps'.

[titanu]

I have a lot of sympathy for you on this one Bob but it appears to be correct. Page 86 - first bullet point under 'Overlaps'.

Pah now I'm being patronised by a man half my age, twice as tall, twice a good looking and twice a good a player - all is lost!!

[titanu]

That raises another interesting point. If they had another base could the knights create an overlap where I am not allowed to where the yellow dice is?

[petedalby]

Pah now I'm being patronised by a man half my age, twice as tall, twice a good looking and twice a good a player - all is lost!!

An exaggeration on all counts!

That raises another interesting point. If they had another base could the knights create an overlap where I am not allowed to where the yellow dice is?

I think that might fail the 'Battle Group Formation' test on Page 23?

[Polkovnik]

How did they get into that position ? It doesn't look like a legal step-forward.

[titanu]

How did they get into that position ? It doesn't look like a legal step-forward.

They were in a 2 by 2 formation (the base behind the one in contact with the knights was lost in the combat) and the left hand (as we see it) column stepped forward less than 2" into the foot.

[hoodlum]

My Question for this scenario is how many dice do the infantry get in melee?

From the photo it looks as though the infantry contacted is not in full base to base contact. if that is the case My interpretation of the rules is that the infantry will not get an overlap in the first round of melee. In subsequent melee in the infantry's turn the infantry can then conform to the knights and expand to get 2 dice in combat and 4 dice in overlap.

Do you agree?

Peter

[petedalby]

Do you agree?

Unfortunately not - no.

They fight as if conformed so the foot would get 4 dice to the knights' 2.

[nikgaukroger]

As usual Pete D is correct

[hazelbark]

My Question for this scenario is how many dice do the infantry get in melee?

From the photo it looks as though the infantry contacted is not in full base to base contact. if that is the case My interpretation of the rules is that the infantry will not get an overlap in the first round of melee. In subsequent melee in the infantry's turn the infantry can then conform to the knights and expand to get 2 dice in combat and 4 dice in overlap.

Remember you ALWAYS fight as if you had conformed.

[zeitoun]

My Question for this scenario is how many dice do the infantry get in melee?

From the photo it looks as though the infantry contacted is not in full base to base contact. if that is the case My interpretation of the rules is that the infantry will not get an overlap in the first round of melee. In subsequent melee in the infantry's turn the infantry can then conform to the knights and expand to get 2 dice in combat and 4 dice in overlap.

Remember you ALWAYS fight as if you had conformed.

so if you always fight as if you had conform, KN could not overlap....

[dave_r]

My Question for this scenario is how many dice do the infantry get in melee?

From the photo it looks as though the infantry contacted is not in full base to base contact. if that is the case My interpretation of the rules is that the infantry will not get an overlap in the first round of melee. In subsequent melee in the infantry's turn the infantry can then conform to the knights and expand to get 2 dice in combat and 4 dice in overlap.

Remember you ALWAYS fight as if you had conformed.

so if you always fight as if you had conform, KN could not overlap....

Yes they could.

[ravenflight]

so if you always fight as if you had conform, KN could not overlap....

Yes they could.

From a realism perspective I'm a little bit with Olivier here.

I can understand the 'fighting as conformed' meaning that the flow of battle means that in essence it's once big line, but if that's the case the overlap shouldn't count OR the foot should be able to expand.

It seems silly any other way.

That might not be what the rules say - and I agree so far that the rules are saying just that - but perhaps that's an area that needs some massaging...

[dave_r]

so if you always fight as if you had conform, KN could not overlap....

Yes they could.

From a realism perspective I'm a little bit with Olivier here.

I can understand the 'fighting as conformed' meaning that the flow of battle means that in essence it's once big line, but if that's the case the overlap shouldn't count OR the foot should be able to expand.

It seems silly any other way.

That might not be what the rules say - and I agree so far that the rules are saying just that - but perhaps that's an area that needs some massaging...

Definitely not. The problem with allowing internal overlaps on BG's would create a whole world of pain.

It is also worth noting that the Knights cannot expand either.

[ravenflight]

Definitely not. The problem with allowing internal overlaps on BG's would create a whole world of pain.[/quote]

I'm not sure I understand why. If the crossbowmen were already behind the friendly knights (in the 'expand position') at the start of combat then they would double overlap their enemy knights. So how does being able to expand into that position cause problems?