UI improvements should be stickied

bretg80 · Post by **bretg80** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:07 pm

I would like to see a sticky for UI improvements

There are several key suggestions I have seen about combat results, scrolling issues, zoom-in/out, strategic map usage, etc.

We should put this is a place that is visible to all, especially the devs.

Bret

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:20 pm

There is.

viewtopic.php?t=24157

TBUOYFM.

bretg80 · Post by **bretg80** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:02 am

Oh well, I guess UI is not a priority at this point in development. Not surprising. Most wargame developers don't believe UI is important anyway which is why the genre is hurting these days. Another opportunity lost to improve our hobby. Se la vi.

Kerensky wrote:There is.

viewtopic.php?t=24157

TBUOYFM.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:44 am

Quite the contrary, we've been working quite hard and the game has significantly improved recently, and will continue to do so for a long time to come.

We're still very open to hearing suggestions, and although they may not be implemented overnight, we would remind our fans that development of Panzer Corps doesn't end with the upcoming release, it is just the beginning!
This list was mostly formed through the help and feedback of our wonderful testers. As a matter of fact, it doesn't even show all improvements made over the course of the BETA; it was only formed quite recently!

Primary items implemented:
1. Four State Visualization.
Can Move Can Shoot, Can't Move Can Shoot, Can't Move Can't Shoot. Can Move Can't shoot.

1.5. Define unit movement types in game and on units. What is wheel movement? What units have wheel movement? German recon cars have wheel, ATV, and tracked movement, but they all have the same foot print icon to represent their movement.

2a. Transformer units
Implementation and balancing,

3. Multiplayer specific content.
At least a few 'custom' scenarios to showcase the game's capabilities.

4. Multiplayer scenario preview chat window.
Short hand description for challenge issuer: For example, tagging a game as: EP, NH, QP. (Experience players wanted, No Handicap, Quick Play)
4a. Multiplayer interface general improvements.
Refresh button. Surrender button. Ability to recall the chat log at will during the current player's turn, and possibly write to it as well.
Button or option to allow phasing player to review battle after it's concluded. Currently only the 2nd player gets the victory message and option to review the battlefield.
High - PBEM messages. We need messages to introduce the player to PBEM and explain how it works. E.g. they need to issue a challenge or accept a challenge. Opponents get notified by e-mail etc. etc.

4.5 Visual and record keeping differences between official stock maps included with the game or released as official content and user created custom maps, scenarios, campaigns, and equipment files. (Can't have people abusing custom settings, especially modded equipment files, for stat inflation)
Perhaps a tracker for 'official' games, and a tracker for 'custom' matches.

5. Chat or some message leaving communication between players in mutliplayer
At the end of a player's turn, there is a new prompt to leave a message. At the beginning of a player's turn the messages automatically pop up.
May need some improvement and a size limit though.

6. Multiplayer scenario descriptions/instructions for custom scenarios.

6.5 User made 'custom' scenarios should have a separate directory. Currently all maps, official and custom, are stacked together, which unnecessarily clutters the 'custom' option and window.

7. Single scenario descriptions.
7a. Currently the game lacks:
1. Ability to recall briefing mid scenario.

8. Train movement, and all unit movement to an extent (actual unit sliding not teleportation falls under this too)
viewtopic.php?t=22329&highlight=rail

9. SS units
Implementation, balancing, acquisition.

10. Leaders
Implementation, balancing, acquisition.

11.5 Stronger core and aux difference.

12. In game hot key documentation, not just in the manual.
Supply tooltip should say (S) somewhere to show players that 'S' is the hotkey for that button.

13. Artillery experience rate needs to be adjusted.

14. Transport ownership visualization needed during deploy phase.
High - unit icons dont show their trasnports. I am deploying and the only way I can tell if they have trasnport is to go to the upgrade screen. I think the transport should be in the background of the unit image.

15. Deployment hex functionality.
15a. Buy units during deploy phase.
High - warning when trying to deploy a damaged unit to the map in a new scenario. Its easy to do and cant be fixed once you do it.

15.5 Army Management 'phase'/button.
Nice to Have - linking screens between the briefing and deployment. Here you can repair & upgrade your troops. Also review upgrade options and access library for units.
Also screen to notify player of new equipment that has become available.

16. Rugged defense visualization and notification.
Also visualization for unit surrenders, air ambushes, and artillery/AA defensive fire. Also visualization and feedback for AI attacks.

16.5 Special sounds/animations when an unit is destroyed.

17. High Priority - Weather icons - these needs to be more stylzed likea rain drop/sun etc so they are clearer and have teh tooltip tell you teh actual weather condition & its effect.

Secondary items implemented:

1. Option for alternate mouse scheme, reverting to original PG style
Critical - when deploying new purchases & at teh start of a scenario the right button should place units, not cancel. It reverses the UI paradigm and is confusing.

2. Cannot undo recon movement of any kind.

5.5. High - when trying to purchase units the purchase buttons is sometines disabled. A toopltip needs to tell me why I cant purchase. I have no idea why - I have teh money & the core slots.

7. Pop up tool tips for the tutorial.
Critical - Tutorial messages. We need pop ups to walk the player through the tutorial scenarios

8. Individual unit stat tracking.
Kills, medals, commendations.

9. This picture (also quick save and quick load):
http://www.theonslaught.org/forums/atta ... 1305253630

9.5 Floating text for damage
Nice to Have - Show damage inflicted on your opponent. E.g. with a 2 or 4 to show damage points inflicted over teh map screen. Maybe allow it to turn off/on

12.5. Timestamps on multiplayer messaging system.

lordzimoa · Post by **lordzimoa** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:39 am

Oh well, I guess UI is not a priority at this point in development.

If we can still do small updates in any field, without risking instability problems we are in our last week of accepting changes, we will implement them. However we are a couple of weeks before release, so dramatic changes at this point, no that will not happen.

Most wargame developers don't believe UI is important anyway which is why the genre is hurting these days.

That doesn`t mean we are evaluating the whole game constantly, in fact the UI is one of the first and most important parts we always start to design and discuss, as it is the heart of any game. And those brainstorm and discussion sessions are pretty tough, as everybody likes to vent their ideas!

The retro style and interface was a big decision and we are happy with it, but we hit some problems, positive it works on 600 to insane high pixel machines, on the downside on very small or large resolutions it looks not so well.

So we will, in future updates/patches, make constant improvements and probably in the bigger add-ons/expansions even try new designs, so a statement that we ignore the UI is a wrong pre-assumption.

I dare to state the opposite, just a couple of weeks before release, doing a total re-design lies not within our capabilities as a smaller Indie developer.

grabbysnatch · Post by **grabbysnatch** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:11 am

I find that the game developers listen to all our comments and make amendments based on this to the benefit of the game. I find it great that I have suggested changes, like others and they have been implemented. I don't know many game developers that listen so well and I think because of this it makes for a better game that can continue to grow and expand

bretg80 · Post by **bretg80** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:42 pm

So, here is why I am commenting on this issue. I look at your list and it is not what the BETA-TESTERs have raised as big concerns. I just want to bring it to everyone's attention.

1. Scrolling is choppy. This is a defect and in my opinion should not be the case for PC's with high end graphics cards. You aren't building an XBOX game. This sloppy scrolling makes me want to pay less for this game as it doesn't seem of high quality. I said I would pay up to $50 for this game, but not with that kind of a defect.

2. Zooming is another area that doesn't work all that well. And the strategic view seems to be disconnected from the zooming process. Doesn't make sense in a 2011 game. Look at google map guys. Your interface should be that good in 2011.

3. Combat results are difficult to discern. Many people on the boards have complained about this.

4. When two units are in the same hex, you can only see the unit strength for one of them. Sure, you can swap views, but that is awkward.

5. End turn button is an hour glass that is not intuitive that it is end turn. When you press it you get no visual indication that anything happened other than after a short duration or longer, the other team starts fighting.

6. Victory conditions and scenario objectives are not well defined and modeled. I don't see them on the tactical map and have no idea what the advantages are for alternate conditions. Scenarios have no context and history behind them. Why should I want to play a certain scenario? The game seems to lack any atmosphere. It seems to be a shooter almost. Just jump in a shoot something (aka dungeon crawl). Is this the intention?

The above list does not contain cool features and nice to haves, they're core game functions that in my opinion define this game on release and years to come.

In 2011, gamers expect more from the developers. Money is tight, lot's of options to spend our money on, and we want quality You are well along your way towards that goal, just don't skimp trying to rush this out the door. It won't bode well for any of us because if you don't make money on it you won't support it and the game will grow stale very quickly.

My two cents.... I like this game a lot and have been waiting eagerly for you to finish it and I will play it for a long time. I know I'm asking you to go the extra mile, but I want to see you get it right. We need a model to show other developers out there how to build wargames and you are well on your way to help set the bar. We also want a quality game that we will play and talk about for years to come.

I can list off a whole set of recent war games that have had cool visuals and 3D and no atmosphere that are difficult to play and they are in the bargain basement bins already. PzerCorp is a fun game, but I'll be honest, the most fun I had was playing the tutorial because it was very interactive and kept me in the game by telling me how well i was doing and what to expect. I have not seen that in other parts of the game.

Bret

lordzimoa wrote:
Oh well, I guess UI is not a priority at this point in development.
If we can still do small updates in any field, without risking instability problems we are in our last week of accepting changes, we will implement them. However we are a couple of weeks before release, so dramatic changes at this point, no that will not happen.

Most wargame developers don't believe UI is important anyway which is why the genre is hurting these days.
That doesn`t mean we are evaluating the whole game constantly, in fact the UI is one of the first and most important parts we always start to design and discuss, as it is the heart of any game. And those brainstorm and discussion sessions are pretty tough, as everybody likes to vent their ideas!

The retro style and interface was a big decision and we are happy with it, but we hit some problems, positive it works on 600 to insane high pixel machines, on the downside on very small or large resolutions it looks not so well.

So we will, in future updates/patches, make constant improvements and probably in the bigger add-ons/expansions even try new designs, so a statement that we ignore the UI is a wrong pre-assumption.

I dare to state the opposite, just a couple of weeks before release, doing a total re-design lies not within our capabilities as a smaller Indie developer.

grabbysnatch · Post by **grabbysnatch** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:05 pm

I agree with most of what u say bretq80. I too have waited for this game for some time and have enjoyed playing it. No, it's not perfect and the market is crying out for proper wargamer war games that dont rely on fast high tech graphices, but simple effective game play that has the longevity to go on long past the lifespan of modern computer games that are back in the shop second hand after a week a so.

there is still improvements to make, but I think we and the game makers are getting there, and the final product will be an improvement again, as will updates and add ons. PG is still loves all these years later and I think PC could well be the same.let's hope so.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:26 pm

This kind of feedback is very helpful. It all gets reviewed and we'll see what can be done before release. UI is the area we spend more time on than any other. We have huge design meetings discussing the placement of buttons and their function.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:45 pm

Heheh yes... and Alex luvs you all very much when you ask him for UI work.

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:40 am

I personally think the screen on the right is not necessary and inhibits a player.

It should be on the bottom of the screen.

For game play we look from left to right. the screen on the right interferes with game play.

If you want to look at statistics... it should be on the bottom.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:33 am

On the scrolling its not a normal issue - it must be some hardware/driver issue. Have you reported your specs separately anc checked for driver updates?

bretg80 · Post by **bretg80** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:44 am

I have a q6600 quad core with a GTX460 and 8GB ram running Win7 64. I hope my machine is powerful enough to scroll smoothly.

But if not, I'd like to know if I have to upgrade to an i7. If so, whoo hoo, I'll tell my wife tonight.

iainmcneil wrote:On the scrolling its not a normal issue - it must be some hardware/driver issue. Have you reported your specs separately anc checked for driver updates?

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:49 am

This problem has been persistent since the beginning.

I don't notice it very much but if you wait too long before you move and then scroll it is very noticable.

Walk away for one minute. Now start to scroll the map.

Refresh rate is too slow.

bretg80 · Post by **bretg80** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:41 am

Ok, I upgraded to the latest Nvidia drivers for my GTX 460 from EVGA. Scrolling north to south and east to west seems ok most of the time. However, when I move diagonally, the blocking is still there. Not sure what is causing it. Is anyone not seeing the blocky scrolling effects?

I'm seeing others post about this issue, so I don't believe it is my rig.

Bret

Razz1 wrote:This problem has been persistent since the beginning.

I don't notice it very much but if you wait too long before you move and then scroll it is very noticable.

Walk away for one minute. Now start to scroll the map.

Refresh rate is too slow.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:21 am

The frame rate should easily be enough so I dont know what might be causing it. Alex would need to check and comment.

Panzer3L · Post by **Panzer3L** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:13 am

bretg80 wrote:Ok, I upgraded to the latest Nvidia drivers for my GTX 460 from EVGA. Scrolling north to south and east to west seems ok most of the time. However, when I move diagonally, the blocking is still there. Not sure what is causing it. Is anyone not seeing the blocky scrolling effects?

Yes me ,especially,during the AI move phase.
For example ,the AI attacks in the north of the map and the next AI unit is attacking in the south,then when the view changes to the south portion of the map i get medium to heavy "tearing" effects.

Also when i scroll the map and or the units move/travel to a distant hex there's always a litte bit of "stuttering" involved.
However its not as bad as is it was in version i think 0.96,so things have improved.
The situation is not perfect or good but still acceptable for my taste.

I have a strong feeling that this is an Envidia GTX series driver problem,but i have to do some testing before to be sure...

Panzer3L · Post by **Panzer3L** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:12 pm

Ok i ve installed the game on my old Notebook with an Core2 1.6ghz Cpu and Intel 945m grafics
and the tearing during AI moves is almost gone.
The scrolling "problem" is better and the unit moving/travel animation is almost perfect.

My Notebook has a 1280x768 resolution, my main rig with the GTX480 Card and 27" Display has 1920x1200.
Perhaps smaller resolutions PC have less "scrolling-problems" generaly which would make sense but i still think
the GTX 480 should have no problem with PzC at 1920x1200.
Gonna have to look for better/different drivers for my GTX ...

Btw. the game is not disabling the screensaver while playing,shouldn't there be a switch in the game to turn it off?

bretg80 · Post by **bretg80** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:21 am

I'm playing 1900 x 1200 as well. I think the frame rate is not able to handle this resolution. When I start the game below 1400 resolution the tearing and blockiness go away almost completely. So, it appears to be a resolution issue for the game. Does anyone else have this issue on the higher resolution levels? My laptop is only 1366, so I haven't seen this issue on the laptop.

Bret

Panzer3L wrote:Ok i ve installed the game on my old Notebook with an Core2 1.6ghz Cpu and Intel 945m grafics
and the tearing during AI moves is almost gone.
The scrolling "problem" is better and the unit moving/travel animation is almost perfect.

My Notebook has a 1280x768 resolution, my main rig with the GTX480 Card and 27" Display has 1920x1200.
Perhaps smaller resolutions PC have less "scrolling-problems" generaly which would make sense but i still think
the GTX 480 should have no problem with PzC at 1920x1200.
Gonna have to look for better/different drivers for my GTX ...

Btw. the game is not disabling the screensaver while playing,shouldn't there be a switch in the game to turn it off?